Yonex code UK/SP/CN/JP quality difference

[redkingjoe]

Dear all,

YY has a lot of diff code on their rackets: eg AT700cn, AT700sp, Ti-10sp, Ti-10jp. My friend told me that AT700cp or cp code rackets are much better than all other codes.

Does anyone have any ideas? Past experiences? :) :)

[Michael Banks]

In my experience they are virtually the same and the code applies to the country of origin e.g. jp - Japan and sp is Singapore, there will be a difference in grip size though as some countries are made smaller by default. I don't reckon any of the actual manufacturer differs at all from country to country as the code is put on post production, but there are models that can only be bought is certain countries and this especially applies to clothing.

[Phil McBride]

The code on the cone of a Yonex racket is a distribution code (serial number) split into two variants, one is the date of manufacture and the other no one knows exactly although there are rumours.

The country suffix you speak of is to indicate the country of destination of the racket, ie. UK sold in the UK, US sold in the US etc. Most Yonex rackets are made in Japan (high end models)

If you buy a racket other than the UK suffix in the UK it is not purchased with a warranty and if there are any problems it cannot be returned to Yonex UK because it has been imported into the country. This is how Yonex set up their distrabution network and more importantly protect it.

The codes CN and CP are ones which do not retail and are given free as sponsorship to players in the Chinese national team if rumours are to be believed, they have found their way into retail stores predominantly in Asia through the players and coaches selling them on to vendors to make some extra cash, mostly Hong Kong where there is a large market for them and are priced at 1.5-2 times the price of the normal racket. They are quite scarce and it's purely supply and demand for these coded rackets.

As with any theory, some say there is no difference in quality others say they are more durable and more sturdy to play with but there are no experimental tests to have proven either theory so it is up to you to go and test them if you are willing to pay the premium to do so.

The UK is for United kingdom and the SP is Singapore, again the rumour is CN is for Chinese National team and the CP is for Chinese Player, rackets either come out with one or the other, as far as I have seen there is no racket that is available in CN and CP.

[redkingjoe]

My son's coach is ex-HK Champion and ex-HK team member. He is still sponsered by Yonex. He receives SP and CP rackets regularly. Yonex will ask them recommendations on the rackets for the Professional players.

The coach told me that SP rackets are from mass production while CP(the sponsered products) are not from the mass market. The sponsered products might be modified or even come from a seperate production line. With same model and same made in Japan(AT800OF), the weight and balance are very diff between the CP and the SP.

The coach further told me that the feelings of using CP product is much better than any others so he will not use SP. CP will produce more sturdy and solid feelings when smashing. Recently, he was given six AT800OF cp and one AT800DE cp.

I am considering buying one cp from him for my son's use.

[Phil McBride]

I'd love to get an AT700 CP/CN but at another £50 and then shipping from HK, is it really worth it :confused:

[redkingjoe]

I'd love to get an AT700 CP/CN but at another £50 and then shipping from HK, is it really worth it :confused:

I think it's worth buying if only costing you extra 50 pounds:

1 cp is designed and manufactured for Pro. As a Badminton fans, it will be very nice to know and feel what the Pro and Champion(Lin Dan is using AT700cp) are using

2 a racket lasts a long time(unless accidents or stolen), this means that everytime you play you only spend just a few pennies

3 also the few extra pennies you spend can end up in nurmous social gathering for buddies to test and try the racket

4 a cp is not from mass productiong and I suspect that since the volumn of production is low, the average cost for each racket is very high

5 it will be a collector's item

I have finally bought the AT800OF cp(at27lb) that the coach is currently using. My son loves it and we are waiting for the AT700cp(the coach sold all his AT700cp). Once we get the AT700cp, we will compare to sp version. But the coach,who have been using a lot of cn/cp for many years, told me that we didn't need to compare: a cp is a superior product, period.

[Loafer]

May i ask why you have the racket strung so tightly?

LarryT

[Phil McBride]

I believe a higher tension reduces the sweet spot so your technique will have to be far better, a loose srting compensates for mis hits and mis timed shots etc.

A higher tenstion gives better control but only to a degree, there are differing views on this and like me you have to try it for yourself to find out the pros and cons and what your ideal tension is.

[redkingjoe]

Dear Phil,

You are so Pro on this. Normally higher the tension better the control.

I was told by the Coach that the 27LB was from trials and errors. The coach is a former Hong Kong Champion for 3 years and he has been sponsered by Yonex. Everytime there's new products, he would be given plenty of them. eg He was given six AT800OF cp.last few months He strung the same racket model with diff strings(BG68ti, 88ti eg) and diff tension( 25, 26.. 30 lb ) to try out which one is best for competition.

Given the free rackets and strings, it's only a matter of playing around to get the most preferred string and tension for a particular model of racket. It won't take long to nail down the most preferred options.

Although my son has been playing with 23LB and 24LB, he likes the 27LB. To test the most preferred tension, I bought 2 Ti-swing SX and started at 21lb vs 22lb, 22lb vs 23lb and 23lb vs 24lb. Each time wait untill all the strings are broken and strung again by the same guy with the same machine at diff tension.

The next time we will test 26lb vs 27lb with the Ti Swing.


I believe a higher tension reduces the sweet spot so your technique will have to be far better, a loose srting compensates for mis hits and mis timed shots etc.

A higher tenstion gives better control but only to a degree, there are differing views on this and like me you have to try it for yourself to find out the pros and cons and what your ideal tension is.

[redkingjoe]

Dear Larry,
The 27lb was the tension that the coach was using when he sold his AT800OFcp to us. It turns out that my son, who has been using 23lb and 24lb on the two Ti-swing SX, likes the 27lb better on the AT800OFcp.
But it is unfair to compare an AT800OF cp on 27lb to a Ti-swing on 24lb.

Please also see my other post on the 27lb.



May i ask why you have the racket strung so tightly?

LarryT

[Phil McBride]

Normal social playing string tension now is around the 23-25lbs area, some people and most pros have tensions of 30lbs. I have tried most tensions up to 40lbs on a badminton racket and make comments out of how I feel using them.

Yonex suggest tensions of around 21-24 in their UK rackets so the warranty is valid if anything goes wrong but the reality of the situation is that the people they sponsor use tensions way over the recomended range because that is what works for them.

Nano, it is very unusual to have the main and cross within 1lb of each other, the normal difference is 2lbs, 22 V 24 => overall tension classed as 23lbs. The only exception is proportiaonal stringing where the strings in the middle are of a high tension and the tension lowers as you near the frame.

[redkingjoe]

Dear Phil,
You are so professional in this. We are just beginer. We try to be scientific in testing the best combination of racket, strings, and tension for my son. We have 7 high end rackets, it takes 6 months to break all the strings before restringing to test all these.

So far, after 1 year of trying my son likes

Racket: AT800OFcp and AT700SP(comparing to Ti, MP series).
String : YY BG88Ti(but too expensive), so have to use BG68Ti
Tension: 24lb

Since you have 6 AT700, did you try diff strings with diff tension on them? Please let me know which model of string(with the tension) do you like the most on the AT700?

Thanks and best regards

Nano


Normal social playing string tension now is around the 23-25lbs area, some people and most pros have tensions of 30lbs. I have tried most tensions up to 40lbs on a badminton racket and make comments out of how I feel using them.

Yonex suggest tensions of around 21-24 in their UK rackets so the warranty is valid if anything goes wrong but the reality of the situation is that the people they sponsor use tensions way over the recomended range because that is what works for them.

Nano, it is very unusual to have the main and cross within 1lb of each other, the normal difference is 2lbs, 22 V 24 => overall tension classed as 23lbs. The only exception is proportiaonal stringing where the strings in the middle are of a high tension and the tension lowers as you near the frame.

[Phil McBride]

Yes I have worked my way through tensions and string setling on 23lbs and using natural gut, it will work out even more expensive that your Yonex string choice even if you can find someone who is willing to take the time to string it for you.

It is very difficult to string and takes a bit of time to do.

[redkingjoe]

Yes I have worked my way through tensions and string setling on 23lbs and using natural gut, it will work out even more expensive that your Yonex string choice even if you can find someone who is willing to take the time to string it for you.

It is very difficult to string and takes a bit of time to do.

Dear Phil,

Natural Gut!! Wow! I have heard a lot of good things about it. People around me generally say that guts are with best hitting feelings above all others. I definitely will check that out and get my son test. If that's good, will only use for competition.

I remember I have seen that there's something likel " Cyber 100" from Yonex claiming to be NATURAL. Will check out.

By the way, please share will us on these guts:

1 How durable?
2 Any brand names and Guage diff?
3 Does YY have it?
4 What is the second best(with the appropiate tension) to guts?(as you know $$$$ does matter)

Thanks and best regards

[Phil McBride]

The Yonex string Cyber Natural 100 is a sinthetic string, probably a take on Ashaway micro legend which is supposed to mimic gut as well.

I wouldn't use any other string normaly and then change to gut for competitions, the gut is a very different string and if you are changing what you have just learned to do using a sinthetic string where your shots work to a natural gut on the day of the competition it's making you get used to a different string when you have enough to worry about!


By the way, please share will us on these guts:

1 How durable?
2 Any brand names and Guage diff?
3 Does YY have it?
4 What is the second best(with the appropiate tension) to guts?(as you know $$$$ does matter)

Thanks and best regards


Very durable, the strings tend not to snap but to fray and unravel as soon as you start hitting giving a fuzzy string bed, you will know when you need a restring because the tension just dies on it any your shots have no feeling
As for brand names the best is Babolat VS touch, it comes in three gauges and you need the thicker one because it holds the tension better, the thinner one snaps as soon as it it tensioned above 20lbs or so and as a rule gut is not reliable after the 25lbs mark
No Yonex do not make gut
Second best (for mr anyway) is the Yonex BG80 string and at the same tension as the gut is strung at - 23lbs

[redkingjoe]

The Yonex string Cyber Natural 100 is a sinthetic string, probably a take on Ashaway micro legend which is supposed to mimic gut as well.

I wouldn't use any other string normaly and then change to gut for competitions, the gut is a very different string and if you are changing what you have just learned to do using a sinthetic string where your shots work to a natural gut on the day of the competition it's making you get used to a different string when you have enough to worry about!





Very durable, the strings tend not to snap but to fray and unravel as soon as you start hitting giving a fuzzy string bed, you will know when you need a restring because the tension just dies on it any your shots have no feeling
As for brand names the best is Babolat VS touch, it comes in three gauges and you need the thicker one because it holds the tension better, the thinner one snaps as soon as it it tensioned above 20lbs or so and as a rule gut is not reliable after the 25lbs mark
No Yonex do not make gut
Second best (for mr anyway) is the Yonex BG80 string and at the same tension as the gut is strung at - 23lbs


Dear Phil,
Thank you so much for sharing your expert opinion. We will check that out in Hong Kong and see if anyone will do the guts for us.

We have seen supply of Babolat in HK but haven't check if they have guts or not. Are those guts specifically made for Badminton, Tennis or Squash? Or we just need to get the thickest Babolat gut to string?

Thank you again for your professional advise.

[Phil McBride]

Dear Phil,
Thank you so much for sharing your expert opinion. We will check that out in Hong Kong and see if anyone will do the guts for us.

We have seen supply of Babolat in HK but haven't check if they have guts or not. Are those guts specifically made for Badminton, Tennis or Squash? Or we just need to get the thickest Babolat gut to string?

Thank you again for your professional advise.

I think the string comes in three thickness', the thinnest one is no use for realistic tensions, in other words it is far too thin to be strung above 20lbs or so. the second is the one you need.

The badminotn one is the 0.75mm and the squash one is the 1.25mm, I think!

I just measured the string on my racket and it is just under 1mm so it must be the 0.75mm, the cheapest I have seen this string on the net is £22 for only the string.

But before you go out and get it please ask around and find a good stringer because it is hard work :eek:

Professional, no chance but flattery gets you results :)

[redkingjoe]

I think the string comes in three thickness', the thinnest one is no use for realistic tensions, in other words it is far too thin to be strung above 20lbs or so. the second is the one you need.

The badminotn one is the 0.75mm and the squash one is the 1.25mm, I think!

I just measured the string on my racket and it is just under 1mm so it must be the 0.75mm, the cheapest I have seen this string on the net is £22 for only the string.

But before you go out and get it please ask around and find a good stringer because it is hard work :eek:
:)

1 Dear Phil,
Thank you again for your professional advices. I finally get hold of some professional gut stringers in HK for Pound Stirling 19(including string and labour) to string with Babolat.(It's a big shop and only the owner and his wife know how to do it.) Will get there to string "guts" in the future.

2 Update on the code thingy: I finally got more samples on the difference in product quality with diff code. I have been discussing with friends about this code thingy and the cp code is really too expensive. So finally, more friends were "sold" on the idea buying AT700sp(singapore code) with an additional "spare" AT700gr(german code). They have concluded that AT700gr code racket is stiffer and has a better play fee than sp racket(gr code racket produce a more solid feel while sp has a "weaker" feel).

[Phil McBride]

1 Dear Phil,
Thank you again for your professional advices. I finally get hold of some professional gut stringers in HK for Pound Stirling 19(including string and labour) to string with Babolat.(It's a big shop and only the owner and his wife know how to do it.) Will get there to string "guts" in the future.

2 Update on the code thingy: I finally got more samples on the difference in product quality with diff code. I have been discussing with friends about this code thingy and the cp code is really too expensive. So finally, more friends were "sold" on the idea buying AT700sp(singapore code) with an additional "spare" AT700gr(german code). They have concluded that AT700gr code racket is stiffer and has a better play fee than sp racket(gr code racket produce a more solid feel while sp has a "weaker" feel).

Agreed about the SP, I tried an AT800 (OF and DF) last night UK spec and then tried an SP version of the OF, the OF sp version was like a childs toy!

The lovely gent that strings my rackets has said that he received one sp for stringing that someone had bought recently and it was already cracking in places and the buyer was not happy about it!

The CP/CN compared with UK is around 150% of the store price, however there is the importing fee and duty to pay on top of that, as UK versions are very durable already why pay double the price for one racket when you can get a perfectly good one in the UK for already inflated prices?

And it's ok you don't need to convince me about the CN/CP, I already know ;)


Let me know how you get on with the gut, as soon as you hit the first shot you will know the difference :D

[redkingjoe]

Agreed about the SP, I tried an AT800 (OF and DF) last night UK spec and then tried an SP version of the OF, the OF sp version was like a childs toy!

And it's ok you don't need to convince me about the CN/CP, I already know ;)


A)You might not have realized this but you have indeed done a great favour to the UK badders on YY code. Your input and professional background have profound implication on racket selection. We now can confirm that:

1 UK codes are better products
2 The Japanese dare not sell crab to the British like what they are selling through Singapore or Thailand.
3 UK codes might be more expansive than SP/TH but we should not go for SP/TH through the internet for "second class product" just for the cheapness unless someone in UK really wants to buy some child's toy :D .

B) I expect your "lovely gent" will be able to get "CN/CP" for you to test "free of charge". Get him do something!!! My simple mind suggest that playing/toying/testing a CN/CP product is mandatory to each fanatic: compare the weapon that we use to the international players like Lin Dan.

Well done Phil!! Great Job on debunking!!!

[Phil McBride]

A)You might not have realized this but you have indeed done a great favour to the UK badders on YY code. Your input and professional background have profound implication on racket selection. We now can confirm that:

1 UK codes are better products
2 The Japanese dare not sell crab to the British like what they are selling through Singapore or Thailand.
3 UK codes might be more expansive than SP/TH but we should not go for SP/TH through the internet for "second class product" just for the cheapness unless someone in UK really wants to buy some child's toy :D .

B) I expect your "lovely gent" will be able to get "CN/CP" for you to test "free of charge". Get him do something!!! My simple mind suggest that playing/toying/testing a CN/CP product is mandatory to each fanatic: compare the weapon that we use to the international players like Lin Dan.

Well done Phil!! Great Job on debunking!!!

I think the reason for the better quality of UK product is more to do with UK consumer laws than just wanting to do the least possible to give a product over to a country to just make it and no more. If Yonex were to do that they would not only be stuffed in the courts if they were ever silly enough to have bad quality control but they would lose a large market share and a lot of money so it is more common sense than anything else.

The guy can only get his hands on UK spec, the Yonex reps do not even concede that the designatinon CN/CP exists so it would be difficult for him to get since he is authoried by Yonex and it would probably hurt his bisiness.

The other problem with the CN/CP's is that they are supply and demand, they are not released to the market as a selling item and we have to wait until they are given to vendors by the Chinese coaches and this drives prices up. It is just the pure scarecety of the product and reputed durability that make it so pricey.

If anyone want's one the best place to get them is the HK market, they seem to have more than anywhere else, you can also get rackets that have been discontinued in the UK for years ie. Slim 10, MP100, SPTi, Ti10 and ones that are not for sale here at all ie. the entire cab range.

[smashin']

Red, have you gotten your AT700cp yet and compared it to your sp version yet? I would be interested to hear how you think they compare. Has anyone used a US code racquet and compared it to UK/SP/CN/CP?

Thanks!

[redkingjoe]

Red, have you gotten your AT700cp yet and compared it to your sp version yet? I would be interested to hear how you think they compare. Has anyone used a US code racquet and compared it to UK/SP/CN/CP?

1 Personally speaking, we ourselves privately had only compared AT800OFcp to AT800OFsp. cp rackets has a "solid feel" that sp racket can't match. ok, "solid feel" or not, someone won't care but think about this(but feeling is so important that one might spend a fortune in order to get good feelings but in vain):

2 How does one play with badminton? Use hands only? Must be racket + hand + the body.

3 OK, how many time does the racket hit the bird in just one single play? Many many times!!!! During the career of playing badminton, how many times does one use racket to hit the bird?

4 If I spend US$150 more in order to buy a cp racket just for the solid feel, is that too expensive? No!!

5 If you need to spend US$200 on a AT700sp but if you need to spend $350 for a cp racket, it means that you only spend less than 1cent each time you hit a bird. A racket is a capital item. a cp racket is a rare collector's item that it will appreciate in value even after use. it might become an investment 10 years later.

6 with the less than 1 cent per hit, what would you get: know more about how the "pro"'s real "hit feel" when you are hitting the birds(Lin Dan uses AT700cp as of last big international game)

7 fianlly, we are waiting for the AT700cp from my son's coach.(ok, Phil had tested AT700uk vs AT700sp and tcstay had tested AT700gr vs AT700sp). the coach had sold all his rackets(to make profits) right after receiving them from the sponsor(YY).

[Phil McBride]

7 fianlly, we are waiting for the AT700cp from my son's coach.(ok, Phil had tested AT700uk vs AT700sp and tcstay had tested AT700gr vs AT700sp). the coach had sold all his rackets(to make profits) right after receiving them from the sponsor(YY).

It was an AT800 OF, UK V's SP.

The SP comes nowhere near the quality of the UK. And yes you would be able to tell blindfolded! They are completely different.

[smashin']

wow, it's taking a while for you to get that AT700CP, isn't it? Well, let us know what you think when you get it!

[redkingjoe]

wow, it's taking a while for you to get that AT700CP, isn't it? Well, let us know what you think when you get it!

in HK, i can get AT700CP quickly or cheaply.
1) quickly: i can buy in the market which costs around US$300, empty frame only, depending on diff time
2) cheaply: through my son's coach who is a HK rep team. the cost to me will be US$200 with free BG65 at 27lb(the coach uses that for competition theoretically)

actually, the coach will be given half a dozen of CP rackets when new ones are issued but he just sold all for profits. he still uses Ti-10cp!!!!

[smashin']

Well, I'd definitely go with the cheap route! I also know what I want to be: a coach!! Get all those racquets for free! Man, that must be nice!