Scottish Elite Juniors?

[sift]

Heard there was a trial for new players yesterday.

How did it go and who was trying out - was it all national squad players?

[just_lurking]

There certainly was, and what a controversy it has stirred up!

[sift]

why what happened? Or was it who was invited that was a problem?

[Trainin away]

The problem was who was invited and the many people who weren't!!!

Total joke!!!

[joe king]

well are u goin to tell us who wasnt and who was invited?

[Trainin away]

Fiona Maxtone was the only one invited from the whole u17 national squad!

Fraser Michie and Craig Pollock i think wer the only younger boys invited. lots of u13 girls cant remember all ther names.

[sift]

Surely they must be looking at the younger ones as FM is well down the list of girls.

In fact is she not even older than some of the team that were at this European Junior .

From memory altho she has improved she did not even make the quad team in her own age
therefore even the selectors think she is only 6th or 7th in Scotland in her own age.

[Hagi]

Ahh all that jealousy and envy, get it out your systems!!! :D

Of course that is the best way to get noticed after all. :rolleyes:

[just_lurking]

Easy for you to say if you're not directly involved, and as I don't know who you are you may be or not!
Anyway, this decision has created a huge feeling of "what's the point" among the other squad members who were not invited to the trials, even though the majority of them have achieved much more than Fiona, who you rightly said has improved a lot.

How about the people who are actually winning tournaments, and have been for many years? How do you think they feel when they are told they may be the best, but that still isn't good enough, and instead we're going to try out a girl who has achieved nothing! I won't bother naming names, because you all must know who I'm talking about!

[sift]

having spoken to some people yesterday I now have heard a fair bit of what is going on.

surely they are not trying to turn a runner in to a player.

the relative success at the recent European juniors was with Scotland's top players selected at
an early date and trained hard with their fitness improved. the best runner in the group was
the only player who did not make the team

when the new system started, one of the players chosen was a young girl who was an 'athlete' not
so much a player. two years down the line, yes she has improved but is still miles of the pace to compete outwith Scotland - what were her results in Belgium recently? there may still be time in her case but surely you cannot say that a coach will turn a 17 year old in to a 'medal prospect' in two years. if so what a depth of talent we have!!

surely the other players who were not invited must take this further. the head coach of the new squad
presumably will preach hard work and dedication to succeed, yet in searching for new players
can not even be bothered to attend tournaments on her doorstep. as far as can be seen she
turned up for a few games at the nationals and even then spent most of her time
asking names of players. this also questions the selection of teams, how can someone who can
not turn up for tournaments pick a team.

it will be interesting to see if she even attends the u15 quad which would be an ideal opportunity
to see the younger prospects in competitive action. is she the coach travelling?

[just_lurking]

"Surely the other players who were not invited must take this further."

What would you suggest they should do? Join together and resign from the national squad in protest?

[Trainin away]

This has been discussed by the parents but what good would it really do?

Ther not exactly goin to change their minds and invite us in jst because we leave the squad! They probably wouldn't care as they already hav the people that r deemed as MEDAL POTENTIAL!!!

[opinion]

The just_lurking identity is becoming clearer, an East of Scotland Junior players perhaps? indeed.

None the less, it is certainly unfair to be giving oppertunities to people who haven't earned it, and not giving the people who have earned it a chance.

Coaches always go on about the only way forward is to work hard and win tournaments, so if u spend hundreds and thousands of pounds on training and 'working hard' and win basically every tournament in your age group, and still dont even get a TRIAL!! not even in the squad, im talking about just a trial, a trial for all of the hard work, dedication, titles won and money spent on the sport, for the head coach to turn round and give that oppertunity to someone who has no titles, has been playing for years and still never won anything, and who doesn't put in as many hours as others is laughable.

[opinion]

However on a lighter note, i dont think she got in anyway so...

Fraser Michie
Craig Pollock
Lisa McMullen

Favourites I'd say.

[Trainin away]

Well said!! But the recent gossip is that she did infact get in along with Kirsty McGlynn

No complaints bout Kirsty but if fiona really did get in then wot a an embarassment 2 scottish badminton!!!!and its future!!!

[Phil McBride]

The just_lurking identity is becoming clearer, an East of Scotland Junior players perhaps? indeed.

None the less, it is certainly unfair to be giving oppertunities to people who haven't earned it, and not giving the people who have earned it a chance.

Coaches always go on about the only way forward is to work hard and win tournaments, so if u spend hundreds and thousands of pounds on training and 'working hard' and win basically every tournament in your age group, and still dont even get a TRIAL!! not even in the squad, im talking about just a trial, a trial for all of the hard work, dedication, titles won and money spent on the sport, for the head coach to turn round and give that oppertunity to someone who has no titles, has been playing for years and still never won anything, and who doesn't put in as many hours as others is laughable.


Well if it is you we are talking about you have the ability to be out there winning on your own without the backup of being in the squad, many of the best players in Scotland and England have always trained outwith squad setups and are more individualistic in their playing styles and attitudes.

Fair enough everyone aims for the squads because of the financial comfort and the backup it brings but they are not the beall and endall of badminton.

[opinion]

Phil i can see where you're coming from but you are wrong.

As a senior player it is SO difficult to maintain a high level of play and recieve coaching without funding. As a senior player you have to make a living as well as play badminton. And to maintain a high level of badders you have to put the work in. What im trying to say is, when you're older you have to get a job to pay for your coaching, but you can't be coached because you are at work. Its really that simple. And even if you were to find a decent coach to take you, it would not only cost a fortune, but would only really be a 1-2 hour a week setup, which wouldn't work would it?

There is very very little coaching i believe for senior players out with elite/funded organisations, which makes its almost impossible to keep on playing at a high level.

[Phil McBride]

Phil i can see where you're coming from but you are wrong.

As a senior player it is SO difficult to maintain a high level of play and recieve coaching without funding. As a senior player you have to make a living as well as play badminton. And to maintain a high level of badders you have to put the work in. What im trying to say is, when you're older you have to get a job to pay for your coaching, but you can't be coached because you are at work. Its really that simple. And even if you were to find a decent coach to take you, it would not only cost a fortune, but would only really be a 1-2 hour a week setup, which wouldn't work would it?

There is very very little coaching i believe for senior players out with elite/funded organisations, which makes its almost impossible to keep on playing at a high level.

Ah sorry, I thought you were still a Junior :o

You are correct in that assumption but how many players over the last year or two have lost funding and been put out of squads?

It seems that as Scotland is getting good results the funding is waining or being focused into certain squads and the funding is due for another shakeup soon is it not?

When you say there is very little coaching available since many of the regular coaches are either doing extra hours with squad players when not taking the squads and coaching from these folks costing around £20 per hour with court fees on top of that you do indeed have to be working to be able to afford it along with all the silly little costs like stringing, shuttles gear etc.

Then of course when you're working you can't play or get coaching which leaves the twilight hours where the coaches are at home or doing private tuition :( tough one!

So to point out the obvious but have you asked a coach why you are not in the squad you are trying to get into? If they have told you it is result based and you have achieved these results then that would seem that either you are deemed as being too old (as they would undoubtebly go with someone younger with "potential") or there is something political going on which is very odd for Scottish badminton :rolleyes:

[Rip Curl]

i feel this is totally unappropriate that people are having a go at fiona because i know she puts in alot of hours and hard work. Maybe this is the chance she need to succed and win tourniments but if you keep holding people back because they have no titles to their name they may never improve. She might just need that extra push that she will get in the elite and it may make all the difference to her and her game but i don't feel that because you know the sport very well you have the right to bad mouth other players. The whole idea of resigning from the team is a joke you do the sport because you enjoy it not for the fame and glory this would totally defeat the propose of sports and a wasted career as well maybe you should all just wait and see what is to come in the near future.

[Phil McBride]

i feel this is totally unappropriate that people are having a go at fiona because i know she puts in alot of hours and hard work. Maybe this is the chance she need to succed and win tourniments but if you keep holding people back because they have no titles to their name they may never improve. She might just need that extra push that she will get in the elite and it may make all the difference to her and her game but i don't feel that because you know the sport very well you have the right to bad mouth other players. The whole idea of resigning from the team is a joke you do the sport because you enjoy it not for the fame and glory this would totally defeat the propose of sports and a wasted career as well maybe you should all just wait and see what is to come in the near future.

Au contrare, the seeking of fame and glory drives some people to victory where others fall by the wayside!

The drive and determination is what pushes people through the barrier of normality and out the other side into that place where they are percieved as arrogant and conceted. Are they really? Training to that level takes a lot of guts and winning takes a lot of training, perseverance and heart!

I would also guess that if opinion is talking about himself then he would be a person who "knows the sport very well" at the very least and no one is doubting the amount of work anyone puts in, only the atainment of titles and high level competition placements. Well that's what I see when I read this thread.

Just one point to Opinion - if it is yourself you are talking about and you have achieved titles and wins etc. without being in the elite squad are you not living walking proof that the squad system that was set up to give people like you (the best players) a helping hand is not working?

In that case would you not be better off outside the system if it were not for the financial and backup mechanism?

[Rip Curl]

i play proffesional sports and never once has it been for fame and glory i do it because i enjoy the compitions and it keeps me fit if i win its an added bonus. Some people take it to serious sports are there for the enjoyment first and foremost then a career after that because if you don't enjoy it you will never put 100% in and push yourself to be the best i coach young player about 5 ~ 12 and the most important thing to me is that they are enjoying it because if they are not there is no point because they will never get the most out of it. Putting comments like the ones that have been posted on this website about fiona are totally unappropriate and there is no need for that to be said because at the end of the day people get hurt and there is no need for that all we are trying to achieve is the best player representing clubs and possibly Scotland and Britain at the end of the day.

[Phil McBride]

i play proffesional sports and never once has it been for fame and glory i do it because i enjoy the compitions and it keeps me fit if i win its an added bonus. Some people take it to serious sports are there for the enjoyment first and foremost then a career after that because if you don't enjoy it you will never put 100% in and push yourself to be the best i coach young player about 5 ~ 12 and the most important thing to me is that they are enjoying it because if they are not there is no point because they will never get the most out of it. Putting comments like the ones that have been posted on this website about fiona are totally unappropriate and there is no need for that to be said because at the end of the day people get hurt and there is no need for that all we are trying to achieve is the best player representing clubs and possibly Scotland and Britain at the end of the day.

Of course fun is a beginning but you realise as I do that when these players (if we are talking badminton)are older the fun element diminishes, I would hazard around 10-13 the fun is lessened and whittled out of the player and training becomes more intensive and focused, if badminton is indeed their chosen sport.

I would also hazard a guess that once anyone you coach reaches a certain level you would pass them on to someone of higher technical ability (I am of course assuming you are not an advanced level coach if you are dealing with this age group), that is what most of us have to do at some stage, me certainly, since I am a lower level coach if you can call it that.

Yes I have also reached the top in my sport at junior level and it was through love at the beginning and natural flair and the ability to improvise, as the notoriety grew everyone wants a piece of you and that sometimes is untolerable and drives the fun out of training and competing etc.

Fame and glory comes together with being the best, you don't look for it, it finds you and it's how you cope with it that matters.

As for people having a go at each other, well thats what the thread was started for. If the insults get personal then that is up ot the individuals discussing the topic but in the end they all have to do thier talking on court. In the end it's the results that matter.

What the topic was about is fairness allbeit in a roundabout way.

[Trainin away]

Yes everything should b based on results but wot bout the people that do win tournaments, hav titles and of course hav represented scotland! I'm sure these people, myself included put jst as many hours in as fiona and u would think would hav 2 train jst that bit harder 2 stay at the top. I dnt c why i shouldn't hav a go either as she's done nothing 2 deserve her place!!!

[Phil McBride]

Interesting point that it all comes down to that most elusive and undefinable of words, "POTENTIAL"

Difficult to work towards something which is constantly changing and summed up by this word, I think it is used to put and individualistic tint on what is required so it can be tailored to suit each and every individual case as it comes up.

Why esle would such a variable term be used?

How exactly is "POTENTIAL" quantified?

[opinion]

Phil I wasn't refering to myself.

I am already in the elite squad and hope to be making some sort of change/progress over the next few weeks, well see how the coaches feel tho eh. (SIS)

Rip curl, ur comments are very very ignorant, u clearly don't know the full picture and don't play to any standard.

And Phil, you sent me a message which i dont understand, explain plz??

[just_lurking]

Phil, the juniors concerned have indeed asked why they weren't considered for the trials, and have been fobbed off with the "lacking medal potential" reason. This definitely stinks, as these kids have consistantly performed from the age of 11 or 12, and continue to do so. Some are multiple national champions, so if they still don't meet the criteria, what are they meant to glean from this?

As for Fiona, I have defended her in another thread on this site, and continue to say that she has improved a lot, she works hard, but............I'm sorry Fiona but I have to be honest, she does not have medal potential and this decision to include her in the elite squad (if indeed she is in - we have yet to have this confirmed) has seriously undermined Scottish junior badminton.

We cannot even complain to the SBU, because as Phil rightly said before, potential cannot be proved. It is only an opinion, unlike results which speak for themselves.

[Phil McBride]

And Phil, you sent me a message which i dont understand, explain plz??

The message in itself was quite self explaintary was it not?

I was going on the assumption that you were indeed talking about yourself and was giving you options which you will clearly not need if you do indeed make it to the SIS in the next wave of shakeup's, which again I would assume you are in otherwise you would not post.

The mesage has now lost all relevance or meaning. If you want it clarified you can send a PM.

[opinion]

Well, i would be bitterly dissapointed if i am not still in Phil.

Your assumptions were wrong, i wasn't talking about myself when i was going on about people with no titles getting a trial, i was talking about some1 else i know of, who I think deserves a shot. ;)

[Phil McBride]

Well, i would be bitterly dissapointed if i am not still in Phil.

Your assumptions were wrong, i wasn't talking about myself when i was going on about people with no titles getting a trial, i was talking about some1 else i know of, who I think deserves a shot. ;)

Then you could pass the PM onto them ;)

[ting]

Yeah well my sources say, and these sources are accurate!!! SHES IN!!!! and good luck to her!!! she must have been chosen for a good reason! some guy never got in and a coach said he wasnt "medal potential!" she told me that it is pretty unfair because he wins all the time, and shes never won a big tournoment and it should be him thats in! Well she is pleased but unpleased at the same time for getting in! Good Luck fee! :p

[Trainin away]

Well i really do wonder wot this good reason is then, she must hav sum really deceptive talent that no1 else can see!! And what do u mean she hasnt won any big tournaments, she hasnt won any tournaments!!! Oh apart from a pishy wee tournament in grangemouth wer nobody else botherd 2 enter and still she only won the doubles!!!

[ting]

Diana Koleva really likes her movement on court! They must think she has potential and the right attitude to get in. Although she doesn't think so! She knows there is LOADS of people better than her, who should be in instead of her, so maybe she will decline the offer! who knows!!!

[opinion]

Well what else can you say to that?

Not alot.

[Phil McBride]

You could say that Diana likes her movement on court but as they say thats only about a certain percentage of the game, the answer to the question is that Diana picks the junior squad and it is her opinion that matters no one elses(?)!

I think the test is here for Fiona to accept, if she accepts and doesn't respond positivley then the people are right, if she takes up the gauntlet and wins competitions and progress' then she gives the opinionated the poo poo.

If Fiona does not take the place then that is up to her but in the long run it is not how we get there its what we do with it that matters, and the start is that she is in the squad what she does with the opportunity is up to her.

But bear in mind it is just not Fiona that is on trial here, Diana is as well. Since all choices of players come from her and since she is paid a tidy sum to enhance junior badminton in Scotland she would not make descisions like this lightly!

[opinion]

Im sure she wouldn't turn down a place, if she has any brain she will jump at the chance.

Good point about Diana, Phil.

[sift]

is it not a worry that Diana Koleva is a selector (who hardly attends any tournaments), makes weird decisions such as the fiona maxton in squad & seems to have so much unchecked power.

Surely the selectors should be independant of the squad to be fair to all players.

Also surely there should be a requirement if you take on that position that you share the burden
of attending all major tournaments with the other selectors.

How can the selectors choose a team such as the quad, change all partnerships then not
event attend the event.

I would suggest the best course of action for the players such as just lurking who are unhappy
would be to raise the system of selection with Badminton Scotland and ask for restriction and committment from selectors

Don't let them get cocky over the relative success of the European Junior Squad. That was a great group of players who came together at the same time and worked really hard. Some may even get in the SIS.

Doubt if any were anywhere near as poor as FM technically since they were u13.

[Phil McBride]

There are a couple of issues with what you say:

(i) None of this is Fiona's fault, having a go at someone for their inclusion in a squad when they have nothing to do with it is just slightly wrong, Fiona did not choose herself so any critisism lies elsewhere if indeed any critisism need be cast.

(ii) Unchecked power? I doubt very much Diana has unchecked power, she is answerable to someone! Perhaps it would be the ones who employ her and pay her wages, if she gets good results then she will be praised, if bad ones occur then she will be held to account and her actions questioned. Come contract renewal time all these things are taken into consideration.

(iii) Selectors need not be at competitions since the old motto "train hard play easy" should be in effect here, it is what players achieve in training and if they can do what is asked of them that counts in the eyes of coaches, and don't be in any doubt that coaches do talk to each other and who the next wonder kid will be. The coaches and parents lobby selectors for their child to be included into squads (some more than others and certain individuals spring to mind as having very forcefull parents in this effect). In competition results speak for themselves but it is only one set of games on one day whereas training and coaching sesions reveal more.

(iv) Have selectors ever been independant of the squads (sorry this one is a question since I only know of a couple over the years and they had players themselves)? I would also assume there is more than one selector, so why pick on one?

(v) I doubt very much the SBU would ever be held to account to a player or a squad so would probably not ever give a statement on what is posted here, more along the lines of why do we have to justify our decisions to you kind of thing.

[sift]

Phil:

1.Nothing personal against Fiona, just indicating how ridiculous her selection is.

2.Who is she answerable to, perhaps when review time comes it will be too late to
correct major mistakes and players will be lost to the game, being put off by
stupid decisions.

3. Your third pt is a joke, because she is limiting herself to the small group
she trains by not attending tournaments. The whole point is to see all
the players available not just the elite players. Again a sure way to lose more
players from Scottish Badminton.

4. The point re selection was meant to apply to all selectors, but Diana's lack of objectivity
is clear. All should attemd tournaments. So what if they have not been independant in the
past does that make it correct

5. They should be accountable to all players and it is up to the players to try
to sort this out.

[Phil McBride]

So if you are saying there is indeed more than one selector then Diana is not at fault here since the decision would have been by comittee?

I always though there was a selection comittee where the opinions on players were varied because more than one person was there to be heard :confused:

Also you can't say the person in charge of youth development in the squads is not answerable to anyone - how can this be, surely she is answerable to whoever the head coach is (sorry terminology might be a bit off but whoever is in charge of the coaches from the SBU side), she must be getting backing from someone, she can't just be alowed to make choices willy nilly without being accountable.

If she is a salaried coach she is accountable!

[mulac]

I reckon Gordon Hoggan should at very LEAST have got a trial, hes been consistantly winning titles and putting himself up for tournaments where hes been the best and so got the most to lose and winning them. ( i know thats all part of the game ) But so he lost 1 national final to a guy whose never even took a set of him before, takin nuthn away from stevens excelent win, my point is he deserves at LEAST a trial.

[ting]

I definetly think Gordon should have had a trial!!!! He wins all the tournoments and shows great commitment!! Was shocked he never got picked to go! Why didn't they pick any boys?? i mean he is very talented and should have at least got a trial! i agree with "mulac"

[Hagi]

Training away, or should i say gordon, what a bitter and twisted young man this has made you. Would it not be better trying to prove these coach(s) wrong by re-doubling your efforts, rather than mumping and moaning on here about it?

It amuses me to see all these juniors having a pop at the coaches, do you all know better? I think not somehow.

Oh and gordon congratulations on the wonderful appreciation society you've got on here!! :p :rolleyes:

[opinion]

Hagi, your ignorance goes a very long way.

Why should Gordon not have a trial? Hes clearly upset and angry and as I've said im sure he doesn't mean anything personal by it. And you say double what hes doing next year, It will be too late next year, European juniors and all that. Its as if he is being made to pay 1000 times over for one stupid mistake he made years ago. Big issues such as temprament that Gordon has been told to change he's changed. When the coaches tell you to change something or win tournaments or beat so-and-so, and you do them all, and still dont get in, it seems pretty pointless. You can't ask anymore im afraid.

And I can't believe Just_lurking expected a trial, haha, thats funny. "poor technique" as a High class coach branded you. I'd definetly go along with that

[Phil McBride]

Its as if he is being made to pay 1000 times over for one stupid mistake he made years ago. Big issues such as temprament that Gordon has been told to change he's changed. When the coaches tell you to change something or win tournaments or beat so-and-so, and you do them all, and still dont get in, it seems pretty pointless.

So you are either saying it comes down to the unquantifiable "potential" or tasteless "politics"?

And I can't believe Just_lurking expected a trial, haha, thats funny. "poor technique" as a High class coach branded you. I'd definetly go along with that

That's quite an off thing to say openly :eek:

[mulac]

I was just wonderin hagi, when u say, "do you all know better" refering to the coaches, y do u rate the opinion of the coaches so highly? I personaly think a lot of ppl do know better. Some of them aint got a scooby!

[Trainin away]

Hagi im sure if u wer me ud b jst as pissed bout this as i am! Re-doubling my efforts - r u bein serious! I couldn't train harder than i am already and ther isnt anything more i can do without the financial help from the elite squad. The coaches hav told me for years that it wasn't my ability that was holding me bak it was just my temperament and attitude. Since then i've worked on that more than nething else and i do feel it has improved a lot so obviously wen a coach tels me that now the reason is because i'm somehow not committed enough and that i don't hav medal potential, how am i supposed 2 react 2 that? Gutted obviously!! Also considering diana has only seen me play ONCE against Steven in which he had a good day and i had a bad one!

And about that appreciation society, i dnt know who any of these ppl r so cnt comment on that.

[Hagi]

Hagi, your ignorance goes a very long way.
Why should Gordon not have a trial? Hes clearly upset and angry and as I've said im sure he doesn't mean anything personal by it. And you say double what hes doing next year, It will be too late next year, European juniors and all that. Its as if he is being made to pay 1000 times over for one stupid mistake he made years ago. Big issues such as temprament that Gordon has been told to change he's changed. When the coaches tell you to change something or win tournaments or beat so-and-so, and you do them all, and still dont get in, it seems pretty pointless. You can't ask anymore im afraid.


Why dont you read what i post first before posting more inane drivel.

Did at any point i say that he didnt deserve a trial? If he has done everything asked of him and still not been given a trial then there must be a reason and moaning his tits off (or having his appreciation society do it) on here isnt going to change it!

So its pointless, well why doesnt he take up table tennis then? :D


I was just wonderin hagi, when u say, "do you all know better" refering to the coaches, y do u rate the opinion of the coaches so highly? I personaly think a lot of ppl do know better. Some of them aint got a scooby


Mulac am not saying that every coach is wonderful, far from it. Some, in the area i live, indeed dont have a "scooby" and are an afront to the game but, when you get to the level we are discussing i think its fair to say that most if not all know what they are doing. Remember they will have been involved in the sport longer than you have been alive.

[Hagi]

Hagi im sure if u wer me ud b jst as pissed bout this as i am! Re-doubling my efforts - r u bein serious! I couldn't train harder than i am already and ther isnt anything more i can do without the financial help from the elite squad. The coaches hav told me for years that it wasn't my ability that was holding me bak it was just my temperament and attitude. Since then i've worked on that more than nething else and i do feel it has improved a lot so obviously wen a coach tels me that now the reason is because i'm somehow not committed enough and that i don't hav medal potential, how am i supposed 2 react 2 that? Gutted obviously!! Also considering diana has only seen me play ONCE against Steven in which he had a good day and i had a bad one!

And about that appreciation society, i dnt know who any of these ppl r so cnt comment on that.

Do you think moaning on here like a big girls blouse will change their decision? Do you think having a pop at people who got in ahead of you will change that decision?

Your like Kevin and Perry rolled into one!! IT'S SOOOOOOO UNFAIR!!!!!! :D :D :p

[The one and only]

I think is slightly getting away from the point about FM, I know her and I don't think she is good enough to join the elite squad, but with someone close to home talking to the right people well who knows.

[In the Know]

what would you know? when was the last time you saw her play? you wouldnt be able to tell the difference between a feather and plastic shuttle. how ever if it was between a pork pie and steak pie youd be a winner every time.

[Trainin away]

Do you think moaning on here like a big girls blouse will change their decision? Do you think having a pop at people who got in ahead of you will change that decision?

Your like Kevin and Perry rolled into one!! IT'S SOOOOOOO UNFAIR!!!!!! :D :D :p


At which point did i moan? if ur on bout fiona then wot du expect she was the only one in our whole squad to get invited and shes way below the standard. As for moaning bout me not gting in then its not the fact i didnt gt into the squad its that i didn't even gt a trial! Had i bin invited t the trial but not the actual squad then fare enough i woudn't hav botherd. Personally this is just about being recognised for all your achievements

And no i dnt think it will change their decision, i was only putting my opinion across. Thats wot this thread was started for wasn't it!

[The one and only]

[QUOTE=In the Know]what would you know? when was the last time you saw her play? you wouldnt be able to tell the difference between a feather and plastic shuttle. how ever if it was between a pork pie and steak pie youd be a winner every time.[/Q

What do you know? I could be Scotland's best badminton player for what you know.

Well a pork pie is from a pig that is why is called "pork" and a steak pie is from a cow ie " steak" ask the butcher next time you are in to explain the difference to you. As I take you do not know.

[flamingjam]

your post the1nonly started well but seems to hav quickly desended a few levels how sad and childish :( you wouldnt be able to tell the difference between a feather and plastic shuttle. how ever if it was between a pork pie and steak pie youd be a winner every time.[/Q
least come up with something worth him answering to rather than having to stoop to your level :p

Well a pork pie is from a pig that is why is called "pork" and a steak pie is from a cow ie " steak" ask the butcher next time you are in to explain the difference to you. As I take you do not know.
well pointed out, your knowledge of the obivious isn't at fault :) congrats

[Hagi]

At which point did i moan? if ur on bout fiona then wot du expect she was the only one in our whole squad to get invited and shes way below the standard. As for moaning bout me not gting in then its not the fact i didnt gt into the squad its that i didn't even gt a trial! Had i bin invited t the trial but not the actual squad then fare enough i woudn't hav botherd. Personally this is just about being recognised for all your achievements

And no i dnt think it will change their decision, i was only putting my opinion across. Thats wot this thread was started for wasn't it!

How to contradict yourself in two easy steps. :D

On every post you've made on this thread you've moaned about something. Why dont you just except the situation and move on. You may be doing well at the moment but the coaches obviously feel that you aint worth the long term investment where as others are. If they did then you would have at least had a trial and dont forget the coaches in your squad will have forgotten more about badminton than you know. So their opinion over who is best suited to succeed is probably not far off being right, you just dont like it.

Am not criticising you for having an opinion its just i dont agree with it. It seems more like a spoil little brat throwing all his toys out the pram because he isnt getting his way. Even from reading your posts its evident that your attitude is a disgrace and if thats it improved!!!!!

When you say its all about being recognised for your achievements what you really mean is feeding your giant ego! :D

[Hagi]

What do you know? I could be Scotland's best badminton player for what you know.

Well a pork pie is from a pig that is why is called "pork" and a steak pie is from a cow ie " steak" ask the butcher next time you are in to explain the difference to you. As I take you do not know.

Numpty of the year award for this post methinks!! :D :p

Its TRIPE.....boom boom.......oh ok i'l get my coat!

[littlemissloud]

well im sure after reading all this Fiona will work extremely hard and prove to everyone that she deserves her place.

cant comment much on selection to be honest cos dont ken who half the folk are, surprised Gordon never got a trial though. and if i were him i would be pretty pissed off. maybe they just dont like people from the east side of the bridge :p

at end of the day tho, no use having a go at fiona, cos like has been said, she never chose herself.

[Phil McBride]

Personally I'd be wondering if one of the best players in the game hadn't got a trial irrespective of attitude and temperament.

Have you seen some of the juniors today Hagi, yes fair enough you are crap. But if you were at that level and were not even given a chance what would your reaction be?

I know what mine would have been at that age!

Yes being on this site and having a point counts against you nowadays but I think certain people have to since the open dialogue has been closed for some time and the decisions are being made in locked rooms under a cloud of cigar smoke.....................somethings never change. :rolleyes:

Come on Hagi, be objective for once and forget someone is having a go at someone from your area.

And no, I don't appreciate anyone bar myself. Afterall I have an ego to feed :p

[opinion]

Hagi Hagi Hagi, you really have to live in Glasgow or play badminton at a higher level to have a real clue of what goes on around Elite squads. Having feed back from 1 or 2 people isn't exactly the best way to boast your way-ward opinions

Putting Fiona in the squad not only affects Gordon Hoggan and Fiona Maxtone, it affects the ppl in the Elite squad already, and makes their training sessions go down in quality when u bring people in who are not up to a certain standard,95% of the people already in the squad never even knew who fiona maxtone was!

There is no point in going to tournaments and playing and winning them if there is no reward at the end of it (Place in the Institute)

[opinion]

That last comment was spot on Phil, I know exactly how that felt a few years ago.

I was one of the lucky ones.

[Hagi]

Personally I'd be wondering if one of the best players in the game hadn't got a trial irrespective of attitude and temperament.

Have you seen some of the juniors today Hagi, yes fair enough you are crap. But if you were at that level and were not even given a chance what would your reaction be?

I know what mine would have been at that age!

Yes being on this site and having a point counts against you nowadays but I think certain people have to since the open dialogue has been closed for some time and the decisions are being made in locked rooms under a cloud of cigar smoke.....................somethings never change. :rolleyes:

Come on Hagi, be objective for once and forget someone is having a go at someone from your area.

And no, I don't appreciate anyone bar myself. Afterall I have an ego to feed :p

At no point have i said he doesnt deserve a chance or that due to attitude and temprament he shouldnt be given one. What i am saying is that moaning on here will do no good and having a go at fiona in the way in which he has does him no favours either. As has been said fiona didnt pick herself and in no way deserves the constant attempts to undermine her such as "she is way below the standard". Thats not for anyone on here to decide.

If i was in the same situation i would be pissed off as well but i wouldnt come on here crying and having a go at the person who got in in front of me, that sort of behaviour is a disgrace and tells you a lot about the person.

The point about me being crap is well pretty cheap and pointless as is the one about your ego. They both are irrelevant in the context of this discussion and i am baffled as to why you felt the need to bring them up.

Oh and hey i am always objective, objectivity is my middle name!!! :p :D

[Hagi]

Hagi Hagi Hagi, you really have to live in Glasgow or play badminton at a higher level to have a real clue of what goes on around Elite squads. Having feed back from 1 or 2 people isn't exactly the best way to boast your way-ward opinions

Putting Fiona in the squad not only affects Gordon Hoggan and Fiona Maxtone, it affects the ppl in the Elite squad already, and makes their training sessions go down in quality when u bring people in who are not up to a certain standard,95% of the people already in the squad never even knew who fiona maxtone was!

There is no point in going to tournaments and playing and winning them if there is no reward at the end of it (Place in the Institute)

Are you incapable of reading what i post?

At no point have i agreed or disagreed with the ommissions or inclusions in the squad, your right i would have to be more involved, so please read what i post first before boasting your way-ward opinions about me!! :D

[just_lurking]

Hagi, your ignorance goes a very long way.

Why should Gordon not have a trial? Hes clearly upset and angry and as I've said im sure he doesn't mean anything personal by it. And you say double what hes doing next year, It will be too late next year, European juniors and all that. Its as if he is being made to pay 1000 times over for one stupid mistake he made years ago. Big issues such as temprament that Gordon has been told to change he's changed. When the coaches tell you to change something or win tournaments or beat so-and-so, and you do them all, and still dont get in, it seems pretty pointless. You can't ask anymore im afraid.

And I can't believe Just_lurking expected a trial, haha, thats funny. "poor technique" as a High class coach branded you. I'd definetly go along with that

If I'd got a trial, people would have been knocked out by my brilliance!!

[just_lurking]

Do you think moaning on here like a big girls blouse will change their decision? Do you think having a pop at people who got in ahead of you will change that decision?

Your like Kevin and Perry rolled into one!! IT'S SOOOOOOO UNFAIR!!!!!! :D :D :p

Do you actually know Gordon, or are you just forming an opinion of him based on what he says on this thread? Because it could be argued that he is justified in so called "moaning", after all he's just saying what everybody else is thinking. He's not expecting the coaches to change their minds, after all he's been at the top of the junior scene for years and still gets knocked back, perhaps due to the political scene that Phil talks about.

Yes he's been in trouble but he was a young kid, the people in power still seem to hold this against him no matter how he tries to do what they ask. If he throws a racket, he gets kicked off a squad. If someone in the elite squad does the same, he gets given new rackets. Nothing gets done when one of their "golden boys" wipes his sweat on court and flicks it at his opponent. Some would say that is the most disgusting thing you can do .There is something rotten at the heart of Scottish badminton and if this situation can help root out the problem, I'm all for it.

[Phil McBride]

At no point have i said he doesnt deserve a chance or that due to attitude and temprament he shouldnt be given one. What i am saying is that moaning on here will do no good and having a go at fiona in the way in which he has does him no favours either. As has been said fiona didnt pick herself and in no way deserves the constant attempts to undermine her such as "she is way below the standard". Thats not for anyone on here to decide.

You are quite correct in this, it is for Fiona to do as she can in the squad, none of this is her fault and she made it in and now has a great opportunity ahead of her. I dont't think she should have been named in the first instance because people who do not know her are now forming opinions based on this thread and a couple of others.

If i was in the same situation i would be pissed off as well but i wouldnt come on here crying and having a go at the person who got in in front of me, that sort of behaviour is a disgrace and tells you a lot about the person.

But when you don't get answers from that supposed impartial coach or comittee what are your routes of address? Over the last couple of seasons we have seen this site being used for people to vent their spleen and to no avail.

The point about me being crap is well pretty cheap and pointless as is the one about your ego. They both are irrelevant in the context of this discussion and i am baffled as to why you felt the need to bring them up.

Oh and hey i am always objective, objectivity is my middle name!!! :p :D

Both are quite relevant methinks, just lets you know I don't really give two farthings about any of it and feel that the way the decisions are made is at fault. There is a point to be made in this thread but I do not wholly agree with the way it has been done for the best part.

And I thought your middle name was Jefferson :confused:

If I'd got a trial, people would have been knocked out by my brilliance!!

If you ever got a trial you would be found guilty and locked up, secondly it is the smell of poo eminating from your general direction that knocks people out :p

[Trainin away]

Hagi, i wasn't having a go at fiona coz she got in instead of me im doing it coz she simply isn't good enough. I wasn't in competition with fiona to get in as they said all along they needed more girls. If i was Shona, Shereen or Lynn i'd b even more pissed off than i am! Another excuse was that they wer going for younger ppl so why wasn't Craig Pollock chosen? Can't remember the last tournament he didn't win easily. I just hoped that all my results and breaking into the top 8 at senior level in one season would count towards something!

[random]

It is ridiculous that they are choosing so called younger players in the same way it was ridiculous that the last squad of 16 was mainly European Junior age group players and hardly any youngsters. There was a day when there was a squad for every age group with 16 players at each age. Ok the game was not so 'professional' then but there were a lot of junior players involved in badminton which meant there was a depth of talent. I believe that the only way Scotland will improve and win these ever elusive medals that everyone keeps going on about is to promote both strength and depth in junior badminton. Once there are a number of players of a similar level it breeds competition thereby improving everyone's game and not leaving us with the situation at the moment - poor entries in tournaments, a handful of players playing at senior level and people with the so called right attitude and medal potential being picked ahead of genuinely talented children who could be coerced into training better and altering their attitude but at least they've got the talent to start with.

Until Scottish Badminton has a real shake up and selection for squads is based on talent and not training ability we will not improve as a nation in international competition and more and more talented people will be lost to the game. The current state of senior badminton cannot afford to get any poorer and as many juniors as possible should be encouraged to carry on playing and training, whether in squads or not, and not told that they do not have medal potential. as Phil said, potential cannot be calculated, it is purely the opinion of one person.

[Hagi]

Hagi, i wasn't having a go at fiona coz she got in instead of me im doing it coz she simply isn't good enough. I wasn't in competition with fiona to get in as they said all along they needed more girls. If i was Shona, Shereen or Lynn i'd b even more pissed off than i am! Another excuse was that they wer going for younger ppl so why wasn't Craig Pollock chosen? Can't remember the last tournament he didn't win easily. I just hoped that all my results and breaking into the top 8 at senior level in one season would count towards something!

Do you have to continually name people and take a pop at them? Fair enough your a tad upset and dont feel your getting any answers so you post on here, fair enough. But the way your going about complaining on here leaves a lot to be desired and says something about you as a person. How to win friends and influence people!! :rolleyes:

[Trainin away]

If u read other ppls posts then u will clearly c that others dnt feel shes good enough either! The other ppl i mentioned i was praising u tit not having a go at!!!

As for wot u think of me i dn't giv a **** wot sum random hacker thinks!!

[Hagi]

If i was Shona, Shereen or Lynn i'd b even more pissed off than i am!

So that is what you call praise?


If u read other ppls posts then u will clearly c that others dnt feel shes good enough either! The other ppl i mentioned i was praising u tit not having a go at!!!

As for wot u think of me i dn't giv a **** wot sum random hacker thinks!!


What an intelligent retort it is obvious that your skills do not extend beyond the court, please read carefully what i post before spitting your dummy next time. :D

I think you do care what i think otherwise why would you keep replying to what i post? :D

[Phil McBride]

It is ridiculous that they are choosing so called younger players in the same way it was ridiculous that the last squad of 16 was mainly European Junior age group players and hardly any youngsters. There was a day when there was a squad for every age group with 16 players at each age. Ok the game was not so 'professional' then but there were a lot of junior players involved in badminton which meant there was a depth of talent. I believe that the only way Scotland will improve and win these ever elusive medals that everyone keeps going on about is to promote both strength and depth in junior badminton. Once there are a number of players of a similar level it breeds competition thereby improving everyone's game and not leaving us with the situation at the moment - poor entries in tournaments, a handful of players playing at senior level and people with the so called right attitude and medal potential being picked ahead of genuinely talented children who could be coerced into training better and altering their attitude but at least they've got the talent to start with.

Until Scottish Badminton has a real shake up and selection for squads is based on talent and not training ability we will not improve as a nation in international competition and more and more talented people will be lost to the game. The current state of senior badminton cannot afford to get any poorer and as many juniors as possible should be encouraged to carry on playing and training, whether in squads or not, and not told that they do not have medal potential. as Phil said, potential cannot be calculated, it is purely the opinion of one person.

HERE HERE, SPOT ON!

[In the Know]

[QUOTE=In the Know]what would you know? when was the last time you saw her play? you wouldnt be able to tell the difference between a feather and plastic shuttle. how ever if it was between a pork pie and steak pie youd be a winner every time.[/Q

What do you know? I could be Scotland's best badminton player for what you know.

Well a pork pie is from a pig that is why is called "pork" and a steak pie is from a cow ie " steak" ask the butcher next time you are in to explain the difference to you. As I take you do not know.

A win in the Social event at a Bonanza hardly makes you scotlands best player. A few more pies and you may be Mathiesons best customer. :o

[Phil McBride]

A win in the Social event at a Bonanza hardly makes you scotlands best player. A few more pies and you may be Mathiesons best customer. :o

I don't think he did, it was all a wind up at the time

[BobBruce]

Who do you people think you are, coming on here and posting abuse towards a girl who has done nothing wrong! All she did was work hard and get herself noticed by the people who matter! Unless any of you have played at a high level then you will have absolutely no idea what it takes - and there for no idea what to look for! How can you even try to go against the opinions of coaches with such a high level of experience and - in their day - ability?! I mean Dan was in the All England Final!!!!

Get a life and leave the poor girl alone!

I would like to say good luck Fiona, give it 100% and really go for it! And don't worry what the losers on here have to say.

How does it feel to have somebody personally attack you? And this is on a much lower level than you lot have been dishing out to Fiona!!!!!!

[Phil McBride]

Who do you people think you are, coming on here and posting abuse towards a girl who has done nothing wrong! All she did was work hard and get herself noticed by the people who matter! Unless any of you have played at a high level then you will have absolutely no idea what it takes - and there for no idea what to look for! How can you even try to go against the opinions of coaches with such a high level of experience and - in their day - ability?! I mean Dan was in the All England Final!!!!!

So everyone is wrong and you are right. Did you actually read all the posts? Do you know who the people that are posting are? I do believe that nullify's your argument for the best part!

Get a life and leave the poor girl alone!

No I quite prefer to be sad and post here!

I would like to say good luck Fiona, give it 100% and really go for it! And don't worry what the losers on here have to say.

Indeed, so you join us being a loser and post here also.

How does it feel to have somebody personally attack you? And this is on a much lower level than you lot have been dishing out to Fiona!!!!!!

It feels nice but better have tried on here and made a more justified reposte and not tried to brandy words which are rather feeble, if you are going to attack the posters you either need to get more personal (in which case it might help if you knew them and could attack them personally) or you need to attack them with a sustainable argument which leaves litle room for manouvering.

But thanks for registering and bringing attention to the name Bruce, which reminds me I need to email Bruce, which by the way is the actual name of another member!

Anything else?

[BobBruce]

[QUOTE=Phil McBride]So everyone is wrong and you are right. Did you actually read all the posts? Do you know who the people that are posting are? I do believe that nullify's your argument for the best part!

To start with, I never said that I was right and everyone is wrong. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and has the right to make these opinions known if they feel the need to. I was simply objecting to the way they were being put across. As for nullifying my arguments, how so? All I said is that I don't believe anyone has played at a high enough standard to know better than someone like Dan Travers. If someone can provide proof that they have, fair enough my arguments are nullified - until then I believe they are pretty strong.


It feels nice but better have tried on here and made a more justified reposte and not tried to brandy words which are rather feeble, if you are going to attack the posters you either need to get more personal (in which case it might help if you knew them and could attack them personally) or you need to attack them with a sustainable argument which leaves litle room for manouvering.

I wasn't trying to attack anyone personally as that is what I was objecting to most. I think it's awful the way Fiona was being spoken about in "public". But if you really want me to I could have a pretty harsh go at you?!

[Phil McBride]

To start with, I never said that I was right and everyone is wrong. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and has the right to make these opinions known if they feel the need to. I was simply objecting to the way they were being put across. As for nullifying my arguments, how so? All I said is that I don't believe anyone has played at a high enough standard to know better than someone like Dan Travers. If someone can provide proof that they have, fair enough my arguments are nullified - until then I believe they are pretty strong.

Well in that case you are totaly out of your depth as the people are some of the best players at junior level in Scotland! If you read some of the other threads and indeed this one, then you will have some clues at your disposal as to who they are! (that is apart from some of them being named) :rolleyes:

Funny thing is that Dan Travers has not been mentioned before nor his selective capacity in the squad setup, it was Diana was it not?

I wasn't trying to attack anyone personally

Really :confused: , then what does this mean?

How does it feel to have somebody personally attack you? And this is on a much lower level than you lot have been dishing out to Fiona!!!!!!

It might be my naivety but that sounds pretty much like you saying that you are attacking someone on a personal level allbeit to a much lower standard to the one Fiona has received recently!

But if you really want me to I could have a pretty harsh go at you?!

Please try and do so.

[opinion]

Bob Bruce, why do u make a fool of yourself like that? You have done it all by yourself. You keep rambling on about Dan, Dan never had a say in who got in and out the sqaud so don't even mention his name!!

Your wasting effort in typing such an invalid point. Dan was a good player, so what? i don't even think he was in the country when the squad was picked! So SHUT IT!!

Clearly know sack all about badmintonat this level, maybe stick to posting under 'Club players' is there is such a thread.

[In the Know]

Bob Bruce, why do u make a fool of yourself like that? You have done it all by yourself. You keep rambling on about Dan, Dan never had a say in who got in and out the sqaud so don't even mention his name!!

Your wasting effort in typing such an invalid point. Dan was a good player, so what? i don't even think he was in the country when the squad was picked! So SHUT IT!!

Clearly know sack all about badmintonat this level, maybe stick to posting under 'Club players' is there is such a thread.I suggest it is you who should SHUT UP, why not read the scot badminton web site and your can see who picks the squads.
Junior Selection Committee

D. Travers (Chairperson), Mrs. D. Koleva, Mrs. J. Hogg.


Part of the post removed by Site Support - 8 May 2005 15:06

[sift]

opinion was dead right Dan was not in country.

rumour has it decision was taken solely by Diana

[sift]

p.s.anyone in the squad willing to tell us how it is going?

[Woody]

I have sat and watched the debate on this topic degenerate into a slanging match between various people who I have no idea who they are and don't particularly care.

I have to say it is sad that people cannot accept that someone has made a decision about a particular player being included in a squad at the apparent expense of another person.

Well whoever made that decision has their own reason for making it and certainly isn't going to attempt to justify it on this medium.

Whether the decision was correct or not is probably not going to become apparent for some time and as some people have said on this forum don't knock or have a go at the person who has benefited unless you have positive proof that the reasoning was underhand (which I doubt).

Its time the people in question who have been making the most noise on this subject put up, shut up and accept the decision made.

Then either prove they are worth their place back in the squad or if as may turn out accept that a better player is now in or at least someone with more promise.

Instead of having a go at each other encourage and support each other.

Unless you are likely to go on to the proffessional ranks then its only a game and the sport is bigger than the individual.

[opinion]

Haha, In the Know, how ironic is ur name really?

How can Dan pick a squad when he is not even in the same country?

Do you think Dan Travers knows who Fiona Maxtone is? i bet he doesn't

It was a combination of Julie and Leon i think had some say, NOT and i will repeat again NOT Dan Travers.

[ting]

i totally agree with "woody", well said! :p