England appointments

[johng]

World Badminton site is carrying a story that Ian Wright has been appointed National Coach..and Lee Jae Bok has also been bought onboard

Great to have Lee back....if the news is correct....as of 16:10 today, nothing on BadmintonEngland site

[Phil McBride]

Lee is a good choice, even if it was expected!

Who is the other guy? Is he known in the industry?

[Michael Banks]

Didn't he play for Arsenal?

[Phil McBride]

Didn't he play for Arsenal?

And Celtic, but that's a touchy subject at the moment :(

[flamingjam]

the appaerent loss of rexy is awful/tragic i remebr my first mee ting with him, along with coaching practical , the guy was a legend.....it is :o but it looks totally unavoidable by BE, so i guess we just carry on, from what i heard and saw talking 2 players and other coaches like andy w he was a great figure around the place, but now were without him- it should be interesting

As for the appointment of Lee ..well he known at the NBC well of course and so there wont be a intergration problem most know and are used to working wit him i guess, hes a great coach no doubt so glad hes on board, a different character i believe to rexy will the greatest loss from him leavin be more with spirit or moral..rather than coachin quality? :confused: i dont know ive never been coached or had a good conversation with Lee ...any ideas people?

As for the other appointment ...seems to have national coaching experience at least though i must confess not really knowing him ..any1 help out?

V Sad to see rexy go ...good luck to him....except when the malays play us :p against the chinese i wish him all luck :D

However its good to see at least somepeople are coming into the new BadmintonEngland rather than just leavin

[Phil McBride]

From what I've heard Lee had the respect of the players when he was there before which was a problem for some subsequent coaches.

I think he will bring something different to the BE camp, and probably need a translator as well :p

[grosbred]

Ian Wright is currently French national coach. He left England 11 years ago to coach the Norwegian national team and then moved to France where he has been in charge of top juniors and seniors for the past 10 years.

[johng]

Phil...No need for a translator for lee....his english is very good

Players respect him for his playing record, his coaching ability....and his wonderful personality

[Admiral]

Why is Lee Jae Bok a good appointment?? He didn't do a very good job last time and buggered off when it suited him - has he changed.....The Admiral thinks not!!!!!!!!!


Ian Wright - good footballer....average county badminton player and coach!!!!

England does it again I'm afraid.

[Phil McBride]

Phil...No need for a translator for lee....his english is very good

Players respect him for his playing record, his coaching ability....and his wonderful personality

No John, portions of his English is very good ;) Although I think Lee is a good coach ,what you should have said is that the players at the then BA of E respected him because of his record, now he has focused on his business and been away for a while it will be interesting to see if he is still held in the same regard as he was back then. Also it would be interesting to see where LIBA fits in around Lee's schedule with BE

I agree with the Admiral in respect to the Iain Wright appointment, It seems to be the most consistant comment made about Mr Wright with regards to his playing ability but then again being a good player is not the be all and end all of coaching, but gaining the respect of the players would be an added bonus and I would think high on the agenda for any organisation.

[redkingjoe]

By the way, can anyone "invite" Clive Ricks, Ian Wright, Lee Jae Bok..., those Brits Badder Heads, to join this forum so that we can give them some "free" advises?

[Phil McBride]

I think they will probably be aware of the site, Lee on the other hand does post on Badminton Central but it tends to be mostly on technical tips etc. not focused discussion about the structure of organisations, training and the like

[redkingjoe]

Phil,
thank you for the information...anyone knows his user id? may be we can PM him to invite those "heads" to come and discuss...take a step towars democracy!!!! we can at least reflect our expectation...

[danbelcher]

Do people believe Lee Jae Bok is up to date with the current game?

John G, didn't you appear in his video?

Wouldn't england be better off trying to acquire a danish coach?

[Phil McBride]

Do people believe Lee Jae Bok is up to date with the current game?

Interesting you should say that, someone said to me a couple of nights ago that Rexy was respected and up to date since he was only playing about 5 years ago whereas Lee is some way off that by a few years

[Phil McBride]

Although I think Lee is a good coach ,what you should have said is that the players at the then BA of E respected him because of his record, now he has focused on his business and been away for a while it will be interesting to see if he is still held in the same regard as he was back then. Also it would be interesting to see where LIBA fits in around Lee's schedule with BE

I think we now know about the above:

Dear friends.
From the first of June I will be taking up a post with Badminton England ( formely BaofE ) to help coach the National squad. In many ways this has been a difficult decision for me to make because it will limit my personal involvement with Liba and ibbs.

when I first came to this country, I was made to feel very welcome. I greatly enjoyed the time I spent in Milton Keynes as National and British Olympic coach; therefore when I was offered the chance to work with this new generation of Elite English players, it was too good an opportunity to turn down.

As you might appreciate my new duties with Badminton England start almost immediately, so Liba courses scheduled for this summer have unfortunately had to be cancelled. Those of you who have pre-booked for summer courses will be contacted shortly.


Liba’s head coach, Ms Lee Young Sook is currently in Korea. However, she hopes to be back in the UK very soon to resume personal coaching and the running of the Liba Academy Cells. Some limited Liba courses may possibly be arranged for later in the year.

I know you will be disappointed that the Liba courses have been put on hold for a while but I hope you will wish me luck in my new role coaching the English team. I promise to use all my experience to help bring them every success.



Lee Jae Bok

[NeilNicholls]

Interesting you should say that, someone said to me a couple of nights ago that Rexy was respected and up to date since he was only playing about 5 years ago whereas Lee is some way off that by a few years
so how "far off" is Tang Xianhu, one of the Chinese coaches?
Age 64~65. Retired from professional play ~28 years ago.

Lee is only a coach. Ian Wright is the head coach.
So will Lee be coaching what Lee thinks, or what the head coach tells him to coach?

[Phil McBride]

so how "far off" is Tang Xianhu, one of the Chinese coaches?
Age 64~65. Retired from professional play ~28 years ago.

Lee is only a coach. Ian Wright is the head coach.
So will Lee be coaching what Lee thinks, or what the head coach tells him to coach?

Difference is that in China if you don't respect the coach you are out and respect is a given as a cultural difference, yes they have both achieved in their time in the game but in the UK respect is not a given and the culture in the UK somewhat different.

Would you not agree?

As for the coaching I would think Lee is head and shoulders above Iain Wright so the desicion should lie with Lee as he should be able to coach his way

[Kapow]

Totally agree with Admiral. Good for England? What was his position on world circuit? Taking the place of Rexy? Rexy was expert in double. Was not Lee single player? Not to good at that I remember!

England must be desparate to employ him. I think he has funny techical abitlity not like top world player. Really strange overhead technique and not good as me even now. England better getting Danish coach. What wrong with Morten Frost? Is not he available now? Also Joo Bong Park. He is available to now also.

England need very good single player because recent single match with Gaffar and Kenneth Jonasson was joke! 15-5, 15-0. Gaffar had no weapon against Kenneth. I observe his footwork. It really broke down during rally. He look like amature. Infact I blame his coach. Complete wrong footwork. No threat to Kenneth. When push deep he overhead clear. In China player coach for attack from any position on court. When play attacking player must not overhead clear to him! If you play defensive player then overhead clear is good to extend rally.

Gaffar must improve leg strength also. His leg weak. No big muscle. In China player must be develop athelete before he good player especially for single. Double not so important but single very very important as leg strength key to front rear movement. Gaffar must develop. Coach fault here bad training. Who coach this player? I think you say in England sack him!

[Phil McBride]

Totally agree with Admiral. Good for England? What was his position on world circuit? Taking the place of Rexy? Rexy was expert in double. Was not Lee single player? Not to good at that I remember!

I seem to remember Lee being very good at doubles. Never heard of him playing singles though. Was Lee not the doubles coach before at the BA of E?

England must be desparate to employ him. I think he has funny techical abitlity not like top world player. Really strange overhead technique and not good as me even now. England better getting Danish coach. What wrong with Morten Frost? Is not he available now? Also Joo Bong Park. He is available to now also.

He has different technical ability, and as they say "variety is the spice of life". Familiarity breeds contempt in that you do not want everyone the same or the game becomes one robot playing another.

I think Morten Frost is in South Africa promoting the game there and as head national coach. If not he is in Aarhus coaching, as for Park he is a coach with the Japanese national squad as I remember, but that was in 2004 and was a rolling 6 month contract (I think)

[Admiral]

Lee likes all of his players to hit the shuttle exactly like he does. Now that's fine if they have played that way from age 10 onwards, HOWEVER our elite players have risen to the top of the English game with a European technique....not Korean!!

His emphasis is too much on the physical aspects of the game and not enough on the technical and tactical. Our players are not built like the Koreans so why make us play like them. Surely we must copy the Danish style of play and teach our elite players to improve upon their natural game.....all elite players should be fit enough to compete with the best in the world.

Lee is too quick to make judgements on our players and sides with the players who will agree with everything he says. Ultimately his methods produce mediocrity and The Admiral believes his envolvement is bad news for English badminton.

Kick The Korean Out!!

[NeilNicholls]

Surely we must copy the Danish style of play
the Danes have had Chinese coaches haven't they?

[gregr999]

Totally agree with Admiral. Good for England? What was his position on world circuit? Taking the place of Rexy? Rexy was expert in double. Was not Lee single player? Not to good at that I remember!

Faulty reasoning here. The top players in the world don't necessarily make the best coaches. Conversely, many of the best coaches in badminton, tennis & most other sports have never been in the top 20 themselves. As a tennis coach myself, I've been able to improve the stroke techniques & game strategy of players that are better than I. In fact, if a coach is any good, many of his players will often surpass him/her.

A good coach usually has a very good eye for tendencies & details, is very good at troubleshooting, has a very broad knowledge of the sport, a great analytical mind & knows how to express himself/herself to his/her players. Some of the top players in a sport may not have all these or other qualities to make a good coach. Knowing how to perform a high-level technique or strategy, does not necessarily mean that you will have the skills to get other to perform those same tasks.



England must be desparate to employ him. I think he has funny techical abitlity not like top world player. Really strange overhead technique and not good as me even now...

I had a very decent overhead smash in both tennis & badmiton before learning Lee's technique. In fact, the strongest part of my tennis is the overhead (& serve) due, for the most part, to badminton. After learning Lee's smash technique a few months ago (from his IBBS.tv video), I was able to significantly improve my badminton smashes even moreso.

So, even if his overhead technique is not quite the same as yours, many players have indicated that they've been able to improve their smash & other strokes by adopting Lee's techniques. As a coach, I am fully aware that there are many inferior ways to perform a task but, on the other hand, there is almost always more than one "correct" way to perform a task as well.

[Kapow]

gregr999 - You cannot compare tennis with badminton - different game completely it is. Tennis is not so technical detail and slow slow slow. No explosive power in tennis. Also footwork no so important! Tennis player runaround court and cannot run backwards. In badminton player must have excellent footwork always. You look a difference in Gaffar game to Jonnason. His footwork breakdown underpressure. Also legstrenth very important not so in tennis. It is evident when you compare tennis player leg to badminton. Also badminton game have more variety of shot and speed and deception.

You are correct gregr999 when you say that coach have those qualities that you mention and also good player not make good coach but it is important that coach can identify what is good technique. For this good coach must study and study world class player who exceptional in his class. I also not except what you say about overhead. Another difference in Gaffar game to Kenneth is that quality of overhead from Gaffar poor. There is some fundamental way that worldclass overhead is achevied and there is no variation. This is because of human body makeup and you cannot change that.

You are wrong in alot that you say. You and other say that China produce robot like player. What we have done is perefect movement in footwork and stroke production of human body and this is taught in a standard way to all player. We have best understanding how to achieve perfection and power from the body and this why we are dominant in all world circuit. We have formula and it work. You cannot argue against this especially as you in US not produce any world class player ever. You have many technology but you have not ability to study in high level of detail the best in world. This is failing of US and other country coach. You not understand how to achive maximum from body and this why you will always fail.

When you have knowledge it easy to use.

One more thing - I not say that China game perfect but we have achieved perfection in our player technique. Always balanced and smooth footwork and racket action and body action. Our player only run under extreme pressure. You watch most China single player. One player who different is Lin Dan. He is fast and runner. This make him different to most other China player and he able to netralise other runner player who able to play a game of return shuttle back and not construct exciting game because player have good badminton brain. This make match boring as player only keep returning shuttle.

[Phil McBride]

When you have knowledge it easy to use.

Then why is your argument so flawed?



You and other say that China produce robot like player. What we have done is perefect movement in footwork and stroke production of human body and this is taught in a standard way to all player.

That would be me then, China has an ability to take children and see if they have an aptitude for a sport at a very early age, the more westernised countries do not have this to even a 5% chance of spotting players so early because they have no way of monitoring.

The way children start in the UK is totally different, we take a racket and hit an object and we build from there, in china you take players and teach them routine and perfection by making sure they are technically sound from an early age, most times without hitting objects first as the object is technical perfection at that stage in development.


We have best understanding how to achieve perfection and power from the body and this why we are dominant in all world circuit. We have formula and it work. You cannot argue against this especially as you in US not produce any world class player ever. You have many technology but you have not ability to study in high level of detail the best in world. This is failing of US and other country coach. You not understand how to achive maximum from body and this why you will always fail.

You have the best understanding of how sports science is applied to athletes? When did this start? Name a sport other than table tennis, badaminton and gymnastics the Chinese are world leaders.

As a country that develops world class talent you are undeniably the best in terms of gents singles, at this time you have one in the top 3, 1-Lin Dan, 2-Kenneth Johanssen, 3-Peter Gade. Which is the worst it has been for some time!

Ladies doubles again is similar to the gents singles in that China does indeed dominate but what about the other disciplines? Mixed is a possibility but the category is too open and gents doubles is another open category.

Yes the US and certain other countries have not produced a world class player but the US and the likes do not concentrate on badminton the same way China does! In the US badminton is still a minority sport assumed as a backgarden sport for children.

I'm quite sure if the US wanted a badminton champ they would have on in under 5 years, but the US has had a strangle hold on track and field the same way China does in badminton.

So for the countries it is a matter of sporting priorities, also an athlete will not make money from badminton in the same way they will from other sports so it is a matter of the money for most.

[NeilNicholls]

I'm quite sure if the US wanted a badminton champ they would have on in under 5 years,
they would have to buy one though, I think.

[Phil McBride]

they would have to buy one though, I think.

Maybe not buy one but they would have to invest a lot of money, effort and time into them in the pursuit of a champion.

[redkingjoe]

they would have to buy one though, I think.

Maybe not buy one but they would have to invest a lot of money, effort and time into them in the pursuit of a champion.


i think the easiest way is: a US passport + US$1M cash(tax included) + a sea-view apartment in San Francisco Bay Area + a high price contract + a scholarship in Stanford/Harvard + passports/cash bonus to supporting coaches or else 5 years is too short to build a champ

[Phil McBride]

5 years is more than enough time to get someone competing on the world stage if the training is correct

[jug8man]

5 years is more than enough time to get someone competing on the world stage if the training is correct


i agree with phil.......... for any of the current top 5 american juniors age 16 to 19, 5 years of full commitment in a fulltime training set-up plus sufficient regional tournament exposure with be more than enough to compete in the world stage.

its very do-able at an ability point of view.......... livelihood, financial, and other factors tho need to be tended to.


cheers

8man

[jug8man]

Lee likes all of his players to hit the shuttle exactly like he does. Now that's fine if they have played that way from age 10 onwards, HOWEVER our elite players have risen to the top of the English game with a European technique....not Korean!!

His emphasis is too much on the physical aspects of the game and not enough on the technical and tactical. Our players are not built like the Koreans so why make us play like them. Surely we must copy the Danish style of play and teach our elite players to improve upon their natural game.....all elite players should be fit enough to compete with the best in the world.

Lee is too quick to make judgements on our players and sides with the players who will agree with everything he says. Ultimately his methods produce mediocrity and The Admiral believes his envolvement is bad news for English badminton.

Kick The Korean Out!!


on a person to person basis, i too have come accross coaches who are very rigid in technique....... requiring all players to develop strokes like his/her own or not at all. i also notice that i find that such behaviour are not limited to any age categories nor wlaks of life.

im also very surprised at the spectrum of response regarding LJB's appointment in the BE. i have never really in in person experience any of his coaching style........ but was under an impression of his big reputation i keep hearing of on the net especially in the uk zone.

i suppose time will tell how things go.......... which will not only be determined by LJB ability as a coach.... but how well he fits into the BE's development and achievement structure.


cheers

8man

[redkingjoe]

5 years is more than enough time to get someone competing on the world stage if the training is correct

when we talked about the need for "buying" simply because we were discussing the case according to your saying:



I'm quite sure if the US wanted a badminton champ they would have on in under 5 years, but the US has had a strangle hold on track and field the same way China does in badminton.


to get someone to compete on the world stage is very difference from "world champ", when a slightly matured chinese player is playing in the world stage, he has at least 10-15 years of intensive training(6 hours per day @ 6 days per week) in physical, technique, endurance, strategy, theory etc under specialized coaches....these players are so well trained that even Peter Gade had lost a game to an inexperienced junior chinese player

It's very hard for me to imagine what a 5 year trained guy can effectively do on the court when playing against with any of the "2nd tiers" chinese players....and that's why i said that if the US wants a world champ in under 5 years, the best way is to "buy" some real good players to start the "training" or else i don't think the US can train a world champ in 5 years given the extremely strong current chinese players...just ask if ppls can train anyone in 5 years that can approach the skills of Lin Dan, Peter Gade, Biao...

[Phil McBride]

when we talked about the need for "buying" simply because we were discussing the case according to your saying:



to get someone to compete on the world stage is very difference from "world champ", when a slightly matured chinese player is playing in the world stage, he has at least 10-15 years of intensive training(6 hours per day @ 6 days per week) in physical, technique, endurance, strategy, theory etc under specialized coaches....these players are so well trained that even Peter Gade had lost a game to an inexperienced junior chinese player

It's very hard for me to imagine what a 5 year trained guy can effectively do on the court when playing against with any of the "2nd tiers" chinese players....and that's why i said that if the US wants a world champ in under 5 years, the best way is to "buy" some real good players to start the "training" or else i don't think the US can train a world champ in 5 years given the extremely strong current chinese players...just ask if ppls can train anyone in 5 years that can approach the skills of Lin Dan, Peter Gade, Biao...

It's a matter of application of effort in more than one specialist field, the only downside to the plan would be injury.

5 years solid training to be at that level starting at 15-16 (possibly later at 17-18) is more than enough time, if a country focused enough to have every effort put into that squad of players they would be more than capable of competing at the highest level.

[redkingjoe]

It's a matter of application of effort in more than one specialist field, the only downside to the plan would be injury.

5 years solid training to be at that level starting at 15-16 (possibly later at 17-18) is more than enough time, if a country focused enough to have every effort put into that squad of players they would be more than capable of competing at the highest level.

5 years plan for teens??? :confused: :confused: :confused:

when we talk about professional badminton 16, 17 or 18 are almost the matured years for the alround training....there r so many outstanding juniors from china at those age have already competed in the world stage and beaten up the top guys in top stars badminton competition event. Just take a look at this article and think about the 5 years plan again:

(Note:Gong Weijie, Li Yu and Chen Jin are only teenagers and are almost Mr. Nobody when comparing to Lin Dan, Bao, etc within the Chinese National Team(CNT)....there are lot of teenagers within the CNT who r yet to be known one day...as they could beat these top guys in this 6 stars event, the talent, the physical, quality of training and technique of these teenagers are at the top .01% of world class.)


Home >> Sports
UPDATED: 08:56, November 12, 2004
Chinese teenager stuns Gade at China Open badminton



World No. 2 Peter Gade failed to enter the men's singles quarterfinals at the China Open badminton here on Thursday, beaten by Chinese 17-year-old Gong Weijie in straight sets 15-8, 15-11.

The European champion started slow and trailed 7-0 at the very beginning. He then managed a couple of points but it was too late for him to find the pace.

"Gong is amazing and he played very well tonight," Gade said.

"I knew little about him and now I think I will have one more tough opponent in the future competitions," he added.

Gong seldom competed in the senior tournaments and his best record up to now is the runner-up in the 2004 world junior championships.

"I didn't expect to beat Gade. He is a world known veteran anyway," Gong said.

"It's the first time I met him, but I didn't think too much and just concentrated on the competition.

"Of course my coach and I studied his game before the match, but I think the main reason why I could win is that I played slow and he doesn't fit my style. You know, he likes to play fast," Gong said.

A second surprise came from another Chinese teenager Li Yu. The 19-year-old downed fourth-seeded Sony Dwi Kuncoro of Indonesia 17-15, 15-4.

Eighteen-year-old Chen Jin of China, who ousted his teammate and former world No. 1 Xia Xuanze, advanced further through Agus Hariyanto of Chinese Hong Kong.

China books six quarterfinal berths with its world No. 1 Lin Dan, fifth-seeded Bao Chunlai and sixth-seeded Chen Hong all through with ease.

The other two berths went to Dane Kenneth Jonassen and Olympic champion Taufik Hidayat of Indonesia, who conquered Chinese Wu Yunyong 15-8, 15-11.

************************************************** ************************************************** ****

That's the reason if US wants a world champ in 5 years, the most do-able way seems to be through purchasing some of these well-trained & talented teens with passports, cash,...together with top coaches.

[jug8man]

5 year plan from scratch is of course totaly out of the question. a 5 year plan from what the usa has to offer at the moment is achievable. with a proper setup and full commitment from all parties.

WORLD CHAMP in 5 years? ...............My dear, nobody can gaurantee you a world champ for ANY number of years............... but a world class player / team is a reasonable target enough to be proud of.


cheers

8man

[gregr999]

You and other say that China produce robot like player...

You made that up... I never made such a statement (or even implied it). Let's get our facts straight.


...We have formula and it work. You cannot argue against this especially as you in US not produce any world class player ever. You have many technology but you have not ability to study in high level of detail the best in world. This is failing of US and other country coach. You not understand how to achive maximum from body and this why you will always fail.

That last statement really smacks of arrogance & superiority! Please take it down a notch.

The US actually has produced a number of world class players in the past, back when badminton was popular in this country. Many people don't remember, but badminton was very popular in the US from the 1920s thru the 1960s. During the period from the late '30s thru the late '60s, the US produced quite a few players of international calibre in both singles & doubles. World champions from the US include such players as Dave Freeman (late '30s thru early '50s?), James Poole, and Judy Devlin (Hashman). These players excelled back in a day before technology radically changed the sport... the day of wood rackets! During the 1950s thru the late 1960's, Judy Devlin was the All-England singles champion a record 10 times! She also won the All-England doubles title 7 times. I don't believe any other badminton player... Chinese, Danish, English or American, has ever been this dominant in the sport.

Unfortunately, badminton lost its popularity in the US when big money came into other sports for such as tennis, baseball, basketball, & American football starting in the 1960s & '70s . Theses big-business sports are the ones that received TV coverage and the ones that started giving players very high salaries. Because of this, the top athletes in the US either went out for these sports or sports that would get them into the Olympics.

The top athletes in the US were no longer going into badminton after the 1960s for this & other reasons. Badminton is starting to make a very slow comeback in this country but is still far off from attracting very many top athletes. Up until very recently, high school badminton teams in the SF Bay area & other parts of the country were composed primarily of students with athletic abilities insufficient to get into the other sports teams. This is starting to change. However, since we still have virtually no TV coverage of badminton, the public perception in this country is that badminton is not a real sport. This perception & climate will make it very difficult for badminton to grow & prosper in the US.

The Chinese accomplishments in badminton, table tennis & some of the Olympic sports have been very impressive & are certainly worthy of praise. The accomplishments are due, in part, to the reasons that you give. However, you should be aware that this is only a few pieces of the whole puzzle. One major reason that China has been able to develop so many champions is sheer numbers... 1.3 billion! One in every 6 people on this planet lives in China.

I am much more impressed with the accomplishments of the Danes. There have been an impressive numbers of great Danish players from a country that only consists of 5.4 million people. The city of Shanghai, alone, has nearly 3 times as many people as the whole country of Denmark! For every single Danish citizen, there are 242 people in the country of China. How do you account for the Danes producing such a high per capita of accomplished badminton players?

The Danes also appear to have a greater badminton longevity than the Chinese players. The high intenisty of training & playing style of the Chinese badminton player is amazing... but it comes at a price. Those players tend to burn out faster... their career is shorter due to the demanding training & playing style. You will not see too many players from the Chinese system with a playing career that equals that of the US's Judy Devlin or the current & past players from Denmark.

There is another apsect of the Chinese system that most other countries are reluctant to adopt. I've met quite a few badminton & table tennis players as well as other athletes from China that have settled in the US or Canada after a forced retirement at 26 yrs of age. Many of these former Chinese players have felt that both their social & academic development was stunted for the sake of their sport. They felt that they were taken from their families & their life was not their own. They often feel that their education outside of sports was inadequate & did not prepare them well for other endeavors.

Most, but not all, athletes in the US are expected to attend classes just as much as other students. I'm sure that this is true for many athletes in other countries outside of China. After high school or college, badminton players in the US & many other countries are expected to work (full-time) for a living. There is very little subsidizing of athletes in this & other countries. From what I've heard, this is not true in China.

Perhaps things have changed, but I've heard nothing to the contrary yet.

[redkingjoe]

Hey dude, here's an article about US badminton...and yes US was a dominant power in certain period of time in history:


Badminton, Anyone?
The Game Moves Out of the Back Yard and Into the Arena, As Americans Play Catch-Up on a Global Sports Favorite

By Laura Sessions Stepp
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, November 5, 2002; Page C01

We laugh at badminton, even though winning an indoor tournament game requires a lethal patience and the kill-stroke ferocity of a mongoose attacking a cobra. You can see the truth of this in matches at Howard University, which has the No. 1 college team in the country. You can see it around the Washington area where the sport is growing, especially with the help of Asian immigrants and competitors who don't care about being laughed at.

Badminton has 100 million players worldwide, but in America it may have less prestige than any other Olympic sport, and that includes table tennis, air pistol shooting, Greco-Roman wrestling, and dinghy racing.

It was once the game of dukes and movie stars, and America was No. 1 in the world. Sports Illustrated put the top U.S. male player, Joe Alston, on a 1955 cover. Still, we laugh, assigning it to the leisure of a summer picnic.

"Most people think of badminton as that thing you play in the back yard with a beer in one hand, a hot dog in the other and the racket between your teeth," says Rick Thompson, an area coach.

Of course it can be a gentle game, almost ballet-like sometimes, that both 7-year-olds and 70-year-olds can enjoy.

But you'd be hard-pressed to find a Weber grill anywhere near a real badminton competition in the indoor season that is just beginning. Shuttlecocks have been clocked coming off a strong player's racket at close to 200 miles an hour. Players compete indoors, year-round, on a court that's 17 feet wide and 44 feet long. They use rackets blended from aluminum, steel and carbon-graphite and shuttlecocks made of feathers from the left or right wing -- but not both wings -- of a duck or goose, to ensure specific flight characteristics.

The tip of a tournament-quality shuttlecock, also called a bird or shuttle, is made of cork wrapped in leather. When hit by ranked players, it sounds more like a gunshot than the ping of childhood play. Good players go through three shuttles in a 15-minute game.

Everything about badminton is fast: the thinking, reflexes, footwork. A world champion player turned neurosurgeon, Dave Freeman, once boasted that he could perform in 12 hours an operation that took most surgeons 16 hours, a pace honed over years on the badminton court.

Such speed leaves virtually no margin for error. "If you get flustered for even a minute, you lose," says Amy Nguy, 19, Howard's national collegiate champion....

A typical three-game match is far shorter than a tennis match, lasting about 45 minutes, according to badminton authorities. But the shuttle is in play, on average, for about 20 minutes, or twice as long as a ball in tennis. The highly skilled badminton player runs about four miles during a match, compared with the tennis player's two. He or she changes direction as many as 350 times or more, striking the shuttle 400 times, twice as frequently as a competitive tennis player hits a ball. Injuries to the Achilles tendon, lower back, knees and wrist are not uncommon.....

Until somebody does to badminton what foulmouthed tantrum artists did to professional tennis, there is an explicit etiquette to this sport, perhaps because of its aristocratic roots, perhaps because many matches are played without linesmen or referees, who are even rarer than players. Players call their own lines and faults; bad language is discouraged.

But that doesn't mean you don't play to win.

Your opponent's pain is your gain. Last spring at Eastern Illinois University, playing for the collegiate championship against UC Irvine freshman Jennifer Coleman, Nguy had one thought: Keep her running, running until she can't run anymore, or even think.

Her Howard coach, Joyce Barker, had said hundreds of times: "Feed your opponent, wear her out, wait until she gets into a bad position and then take a killer shot." And: "If you're hurting, never let 'em see it."

"You do this sport for love, love and love," says Howard's Barker.

There is no professional circuit to speak of. The 16 winners of badminton's top event, the U.S. Open, divide a $30,000 purse compared with the $900,000 each that Pete Sampras and Serena Williams picked up in last August's tennis U.S. Open.

Gary Chao, from Taiwan, supports his coaching and tournament play with a job as a computer analyst. He keeps an uncashed check in his notebook to remind him why he holds onto his day job. In 1996, he won a semifinal doubles match in the Mid-Atlantic Classic, a USA Badminton-sanctioned event. His take was $37.88.

Ups and Downs

Modern badminton started as a sport for military gentlemen in mid-19th-century England. The Duke of Beaufort, on a visit to India, picked up a version of the game called poona and brought it back to Badminton House, his residence in Gloucestershire. It then spread to every country where Britain maintained a military post: that is to say, almost everywhere.

The game was first played seriously in the United States in 1878 at the Badminton Club of New York, a weekend meeting place for socialites. By the 1930s, it had been adopted by the Hollywood elite: James Cagney, Bette Davis, Boris Karloff, Dick Powell, Ginger Rogers, Joan Crawford, Douglas Fairbanks.

The United States dominated the sport after World War II, winning 23 world individual championships. Vacation lodges in the Adirondacks drew lines for badminton on polished hardwood floors.

Requiring either a big, flat lawn or a big, high-ceilinged room, the game remained a sport of the wealthy until America acquired middle-class suburbs and back yards. Suddenly, anyone could put up a $10 badminton set purchased at Woolworth's, and everyone did. By the 1980s, almost 15 million Americans were playing the game as recreation, according to a sporting goods association survey.

The popularity didn't last. Because it's an easy game to learn (although difficult to play well), kids loved it and adults subsequently abandoned it as child's play. Adults, especially rich adults who set the trends, turned to tennis. By 2001, only 7.7 million Americans were playing badminton, more than two-thirds of them age 24 or younger. More people played badminton than racquetball or squash, but twice as many played tennis. About 900,000 people play badminton 25 times or more a year.

The United States' standing dropped to 25th as tournament play shifted to Asia, along with Central Europe, West Africa and Denmark.

It is no stretch to say that if it weren't for the enthusiasm of recent immigrants, the U.S. would have no game. You only have to look at the names of nationally ranked players, or the rosters of most high school, college and club teams. Nguy's parents were born in Vietnam, for example, and her doubles partner at Howard, Shackerah Cupidon, comes from Jamaica. Ademola Ogunseye is from Nigeria; Arthur Alexander, another Howard player, from Trinidad.

Kevin Han, the sole U.S. badminton competitor at the 2000 Olympics in Sydney, moved here from China in 1989. The country's only national training center, in California's Orange County, was built by a wealthy businessman who played badminton in his native Thailand.

Top coaches, too, usually hail from somewhere else. Increasingly they have turned their attention to young players who, they hope, can help the United States recover its earlier competitiveness.

Such efforts are paying off incrementally. In 1995, 347 U.S. high schools offered interscholastic badminton teams for girls, 183 for boys. By last year the figures had risen to 457 and 253. About 250 young people now play the next level up -- the juniors national circuit -- according to Fred Coleman, who oversees juniors competition for USA Badminton, the national association supported by the United States Olympic Committee.

....

Players beg relatives for money to enter tournaments away from home, always fly on budget airlines and sleep four to a room in the cheapest hotel their chaperons can find. They are rarely acknowledged at school. They rarely get their names in the newspaper.

But they say they are fortunate, for they have found something to do that they love,other kids who love it, too, and adults who remind them that, in Amy Nguy's words, "if you really like something, you do it no matter what.".....

Source:(http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A5174-2002Nov4?language=printer)

[gregr999]

You rock, red. Thnx for the article.

It was interesting to read that Dave Freeman, in real life, was a neurosurgeon. The last of male world champions from the US, James Poole, was also a PhD. Not sure in what field he received his doctorate but, as I recall, he had done research & published articles (& books) on badminton biomechanics & possibly also on some apsects of sports psychology (or was it physiology?).

Ironically, SportCraft was partially responsible for the demise of competitive badminton in the US. In the 1930s, they started making those cheap badminton sets mentioned in the article. These inexpensive sets were intended for playing outdoors at the park or in the backyard. These sets along with combination volleyball-badminton sets became very popular after WW II, particularly in the '50s and '60s. This popularity gave rise to an inferior brand of badminton that is known (by real badminton players) as picnic badminton, backyard badminton or barbeque (BBQ) badminton.

Since competitive badminton has very rarely (almost never) been televised in the US, most ppl in this country came to regard badminton as the low-intensity, low-key version played at picnics or in the backyard. Now, most ppl in the US don't even realize that badminton can be played competitively.

With the rise of tennis popularity during the 1970s, competitive badminton was doomed in the US. The 1980s, also saw the rise (& fall) of another racket sport, rackeball. Badminton faded into the background even more. Because of budget cuts in schools during that era, badminton classes & programs were dropped from many schools.

The following story illustrates the mentality in the US towards badminton...

After decades of inferior gym conditions for badminton, just this past weekend, we finally had a badminton-only gym open in the SF bay area that has decent floors, good background colors & fairly decent lighting. It's not open 24 hrs a day, but at least it opens for more than just a few hours a day.

I asked one of the co-founders if they had considered getting some exercise bikes & other fitness equipment to complement the badminton facility. He indicated that, unfortunately, they could not do this since it would violate their rental & insurance agreements. The addition of exercise equipment would change their status to that of an athletic facility... this would make their insurance (and rent) much more expensive than it is now. So legally, a badminton gym, in this country, is not even considered an athletic facility! This indicates that, for insurance purposes, badminton is not even considered a sport!


Is should be pretty obvious from what I've said in these last 2 posts & what is in the Washington Post article, it will take the US quite a long time to come back around to badminton even tho' the increasing Asian population (from Taiwan, China, India & SE Asia) is generating a renewed interest in this country.