One for the S.B.U.

[Phil McBride]

Phil, If you are going to travel all the way to Hertfordshire for a Satellite tournament, why not enter and support some of your local Scottish tournaments which are desperately in need of more entries and new players?




Point taken Phil - and I have to agree with much of what you say about the decline in Scotland. Everyone should be encouraged to carry on playing whether socially or competetively and from there the overall level is bound to increase and as you say, it can go back to going to the tournaments for a good catch up and enjoy the social side of things too - as well as hoping to win obviously!!



Just had a look at the new site (link in another thread) and there are only 5 tournaments for adults of club and league standard to enter this year :(


8 October - West of Scotland Championships
21 October - Yonex Scottish National Championships
7 January - Yonex Dunfermline Championships
4 February - East of Scotland Championships
25 February - Glasgow Championships


Erm.................. what's all this about?

Ok when I said club and league standard, I kind of meant open tournaments not restricted or area groups. I have a feeling there might be more travel South ahead of me this year as I would be looking at a few good 15-0's in those. :(

Random, any opinions?

[littlemissloud]

have to agree with you Phil on the lack of tournements in Scotland!but unfortunately the tournements that are run do not attract enough players (perhaps the exception of the nationals) to make them financially profitable.
In fact the only tournent (exc. nationals and bonanzas)) i have seen in Scotland over the last couple of years that has a decent turn out is the Scottish University Championships

[kfw8664]

With much trepedation, I must agree whole heartedly with Phil on this,

We need and would like more tournaments,

England have taken up our (Scottish) idea for the Bonanza's but I think they may have taken it one step forward, they have farmed out these tournaments to counties and they run these comps under the auspices of the EBU, is it a possibility that the SBU would/Could do the same, After talking to someone from the SBU, I got the impression that there is 1 less Bonanza this year, than last, because of all the tournaments that they are putting on, but unfortunatly these tournaments are mostly Junior tournaments, now don't get me wrong I am all in favour of junior badminton from the point of view, where will our game go without them but you still need to look after the people that have been keeping it alive (If only just) for the last decade or two.

We need more open tournaments for club and league players,

I too can see a few trips down south, (if of course my wallet can stand it), they seem to be wanting to run a bonanza every month.

Littlemissloud

Is the Scottish university Championships not only open to university attendee's

Phil, Would you run a tournament?

[Phil McBride]

With much trepedation, I must agree whole heartedly with Phil on this,

We need and would like more tournaments,

England have taken up our (Scottish) idea for the Bonanza's but I think they may have taken it one step forward, they have farmed out these tournaments to counties and they run these comps under the auspices of the EBU, is it a possibility that the SBU would/Could do the same, After talking to someone from the SBU, I got the impression that there is 1 less Bonanza this year, than last, because of all the tournaments that they are putting on, but unfortunatly these tournaments are mostly Junior tournaments, now don't get me wrong I am all in favour of junior badminton from the point of view, where will our game go without them but you still need to look after the people that have been keeping it alive (If only just) for the last decade or two.

We need more open tournaments for club and league players,

I too can see a few trips down south, (if of course my wallet can stand it), they seem to be wanting to run a bonanza every month.


I think it is a matter of horses for courses, as I said earlier I would not even think of entering some of those tournaments (possibly would enter the West) because the level is far too high. Other than Bonanzas what is there for the average club player other than to play in thier club week in week out?


Littlemissloud

Is the Scottish university Championships not only open to university attendee's


Some are open to past students at that particular institution


Phil, Would you run a tournament?

Yes, but it wouldn't be sanctioned by the blazerati so there is very little one can do :(

[tango]

We need and would like more tournaments,

England have taken up our (Scottish) idea for the Bonanza's but I think they may have taken it one step forward, they have farmed out these tournaments to counties and they run these comps under the auspices of the EBU, is it a possibility that the SBU would/Could do the same,

We need more open tournaments for club and league players,



kfw - nice idea about the bonanza down here but the ones i've checked the application forms for seem to state that the're aimed at low level players. i did try to enter one of the bonanzas and was told i was TOO GOOD?! now if that's the case then you and philip stand no chance EXCEPT for the bonanzas run by the BAofE themselves and i gauge these will be few and far between.

I would love their idea of farming out the bonanzas to the counties IF all league players were allowed to enter them, but this will be up to the county and presently, they're trying to introduce NEW people to the sport.

quote: The Yehlex Bonanzas are aimed at social players who play for fun but would like a chance to play different people, and low-level league players. County and International players are not eligible to enter. Players who have competed within local leagues are not encouraged to enter the social category. endquote

There are of course smaller tournaments that i can enter but unfortunately the county players are allowed to enter them and so it goes on.

as said in a different thread, i love the scottish bonanzas because i don't feel outclassed whereas in my local tournaments i don't enter because i always get beaten quite significantly. (see whoevers going at the inverness bonanza!)

so mate, like yourself i look forward to more open tournaments for club and league standard players.

the tango doll

[kfw8664]

Sorry Tango, Will not see you at inverness, I'm going on Holiday the following week and need to watch the pennies but phil and I are thinking only thinking mind of going in for the West of Scotland although we know we will get pumped..............................

If the SBU or EBU are watching we need more tournaments for the (Average) players at league standard

[Phil McBride]

Following on from the Bonanza in England comment - at least they are planning well ahead.

List of Bonanza's (http://www.badmintonengland.co.uk/text.asp?section=00010001001900040001)

Anyone planning on doing any of these?

[kfw8664]

Hi phil

I'm thinking of doing the Harrogate one in February

[tango]

lucky hit mate! when i looked on the baofe web site for other bonanzas - the page was empty! i can't say whether i'll enter any of the league ones - i'm not sure if they keep spare people on hold and match them up!

[littlemissloud]

yes the uni champs are only open to university students. There are two tournements that are also open to graduates.
My point is that these tournements are full of players who are of high standard. maybe the sbu should be targeting them and encouraging the players to play the tournements as well

[mcsmegor]

I think the problem badminton scotland has created for itself is the big gulf in standard between the small top group of players and the rest of the country. With the draws being so small in Scottish domestic tournaments it is likely for club players to come up against junior or senior internationals in the early rounds of a tournament. Now with entry fees increasing every year i think the desire for club players to enter a tournament and only play one game will decrease even further.
I believe the reason in this large gulf in quality is due to the lack of funding and attention badminton scotland has shown over the years to the club, county and also in a way regional development. It has become apparant over the past few years that funding is split over two types of age groups: the really young and international players.
Now i agree whole heartedly to pile a lot of money into young athletes to try lift the standard of badminton in Scotland. However, what i believe is that this has actually stopped temporarily the level of badminton increasing in this country, at least for the next 5-10 years.
Players are givin a lot of backing and funding at a young age then if they arent cutting it at international level by the age of around 18 funding stops and so do all squads nights. Players are therefore given a decision to either quit or continue to play through self-funding.
There is no longer a good enough standard in club players to bridge the gap between club and international level.
My theories on how this can be improved are as follows: firstly introduce players to club level or county level from an early age. The top countries in Europe (Denmark, Germany England) have a good club/county structure to produce their elite players. This could be achieved by turning regional squads into club nites? Not only would this bring a regular competitve edge into training nights but it also gives young athletes set goals, to get into the first team for instance.
Now as im aware bonanzas have been created to try and give club players competitive tournaments to play in. But after a successful year of these tournaments running how many of the players will now step up to the next level and compete in domestic events. I think very little if anyone will attempt it. Therefore i think a big effort should be made to try persaude bonanza participants to step up a level. If scottish domestic tournaments could have the same numbers which turn up for bonanzas then in my opinion the level of standard would gradually rise.

and before i get complaints from badmintonscotland supporters this is not a rant of how bad badminton scotland is. I believe the work they do is good im only stating an opion on an area which may have been overlooked in the past

[kfw8664]

I would agree with you particularly with the Last point, but don't you think that the gulf is large enough that it would take more than a single year to step up from Bonanza's to the so called ranking tournaments like the West of Scotland for instance although I am planning although tentatively to enter the west if for nothing else experience and some fun

[Phil McBride]

McSmegor calls it as it is, he shoots he scores and wins!!!!!

The funding is why the game will stall in Scotland for a while - money is being piled into only a small section and there is no DEPTH to the game!!!

There is however a large void and as he points out there will be few to come from the bonanza niche at tournament level where they are the big fish to put themselves through that to take on the big boys of the game to get a thrashing - why should they?

No one apart from me likes to turn up and get scudded off the court - they prefer close games and same level stuff. Why should they go and get beaten 15-2, 15-2?

Bonanzas are all well and good but they need to be regular - once every 2 months or so to gain momentum but with the Scots catering for juniors and vets the calendar is full and only the 5 tournaments listed are ones I can enter openly but realistically would I get into a second round? NO! Even more realistically would I get a third game? NO!

Good to see you back McS, but this is Badders.com - no one here is pro SBU ;)

[Phil McBride]

I would agree with you particularly with the Last point, but don't you think that the gulf is large enough that it would take more than a single year to step up from Bonanza's to the so called ranking tournaments like the West of Scotland for instance although I am planning although tentatively to enter the west if for nothing else experience and some fun

Depends on how serious you are, my opinion would be yes - more than a year with hard work, possibly 2.

If you enter the West you cannot have your fun hat on, that is not what the West is for - a Bonanza it certainly is not.

You never know, you might even see McS in a quarter or semi ;)

[kfw8664]

You take me too literally phil

[Phil McBride]

You take me too literally phil

Oops, I thought you meant you :o

In some cases it would take a while yes, remember these are church and district league players whereas the West and the other tournaments are mostly ranked juniors and countly levels minimum etc.

[kfw8664]

Phil I meant you took me litterally about the fun part

[Phil McBride]

Phil I meant you took me litterally about the fun part

Well in that case it'll take you 3 years - just having some fun ;)

[littlemissloud]

100% agree with msmegor on all his points.

first tournement i entered after 3 years i was drawn (or 'placed' depending on who you listen to) against the top seeds!,and at a least a tenner per event, it seriously put me off entering any more. I enjoy playing competitions even if i am going to get hammered, but am not willing to pay that amount of money for one game.
I think i maybe played 2 more events and thats been it for well over a year except for uni competitions.

[vatovey]

Hi all,

Having been following this thread, from the sounds of things, it sounds like that Scotland are in the same situation as Wales were a couple of years ago. ie. not enough tournaments catering for the league/county player, to remedy this WBU have come up with the WSS (Welsh Senior Series), which is essentially 10/12 tournaments around South and North Wales which up until now have been run by individuals (like myself - I run the Mid-Glam Open) or counties, they generally attract club/county/junior internationals who all seem to enjoy the format, with all results going towards a ranking list, and a series final at the end of the season.

Format: 1st round = Group stages, with approx 3/5 players in each group - 1 game to 15, either top or top 2 players go through to qtrs, from qtrs/semi's its a standard knockout, but with game being played up to different scores, ie: in qtrs = 1 to 15, semi's = 1 to 21, finals - 3 to 15.

If scotland have a bunch of small tournaments acting individually - maybe its worth the SBU getting to know about these tournaments, and possibly adding a couple of extra tournaments, and grouping them all together, this is what happened with us in Wales, and what we are finding now is that counties want to submit a tournament to the series due to the huge success of the series as a whole.

Know its a long way to come - but anyone is welcome to enter WSS tournaments, and it would be great to see some new players enter, but obviously - the best solution would be to have your own series. In fact we have a scottish player playing in the WSS - Stephen Stewart, some of you may know him.

Anyways - hope the SBU get something sorted for you, as it sounds like there may be a demand, if players were to have at least a couple of games in the group stages.

Cheers, Vaughn.

[mcsmegor]

sounds like the welsh format is something badminton scotland could consider.
As a player i just feel as though tournaments in Scotland are continuely getting worse. Not only senior but junior events seem to be dropping by large numbers each year. And in some cases tournaments are being scrapped all together (the invitation singles).
There seems to be huge potential for the domestic tournaments in scotland to increase in entry size and i feel that it is not being targeted well enough. In junior events it is now common for players to compete not at their own age group but age groups above and in some cases 2-3 age groups above. Now for individual player development this is good as it helps players compete against stronger opponents. However, at times it can have a knock on effect on entry size. One idea i have thought could combat this would be to restrict entry to junior national events. For instance only let players who have competed in a certain amount of domestic events - within that age group - compete. The same theory could be used for senior players after all they to must show some form of commitment to lifting the standard in Scotland. I mean if something doesnt change it looks like senior tournaments at least are going to continue to suffer.
The West and Glasgow Opens could try and target club players to enter their events, instead of worrying so much about attracting back players who have competed in previous years. Or those players who are members of the Cockburn centre. They have a huge selling point in the fact they are held in Glasgow, where a large amount of club players play.
The East Open held in Meadowbank recieves no exposure on the West coast here. Again it is not too far to travel through to Edinburgh once a year. Im sure however most entrants into the bonanza style tournaments will never have heard of the East Open unless they themselves have looked into it.
Im also amazed at how the National Badminton Academy in Scotstoun has yet to host a domestic badminton tournament. If the facilites are there, why not use them?? From playing junior events in England and senior events in Wales I know that their National Badminton Academy's are used to host events. Why not in Scotland? :confused:
In the end i suppose its a funding thing. If the money is not there then maybe theres no hope.... :-(

[Phil McBride]

sounds like the welsh format is something badminton scotland could consider.
As a player i just feel as though tournaments in Scotland are continuely getting worse. Not only senior but junior events seem to be dropping by large numbers each year. And in some cases tournaments are being scrapped all together (the invitation singles).
There seems to be huge potential for the domestic tournaments in scotland to increase in entry size and i feel that it is not being targeted well enough. In junior events it is now common for players to compete not at their own age group but age groups above and in some cases 2-3 age groups above. Now for individual player development this is good as it helps players compete against stronger opponents. However, at times it can have a knock on effect on entry size. One idea i have thought could combat this would be to restrict entry to junior national events. For instance only let players who have competed in a certain amount of domestic events - within that age group - compete. The same theory could be used for senior players after all they to must show some form of commitment to lifting the standard in Scotland. I mean if something doesnt change it looks like senior tournaments at least are going to continue to suffer.
The West and Glasgow Opens could try and target club players to enter their events, instead of worrying so much about attracting back players who have competed in previous years. Or those players who are members of the Cockburn centre. They have a huge selling point in the fact they are held in Glasgow, where a large amount of club players play.
The East Open held in Meadowbank recieves no exposure on the West coast here. Again it is not too far to travel through to Edinburgh once a year. Im sure however most entrants into the bonanza style tournaments will never have heard of the East Open unless they themselves have looked into it.
Im also amazed at how the National Badminton Academy in Scotstoun has yet to host a domestic badminton tournament. If the facilites are there, why not use them?? From playing junior events in England and senior events in Wales I know that their National Badminton Academy's are used to host events. Why not in Scotland? :confused:
In the end i suppose its a funding thing. If the money is not there then maybe theres no hope.... :-(

Do have to agre with attracting the club players as the bonanzas seem to attract hundreds over the two days - why not amalgamate tournaments and instead of posting out bonanza entry forms the norm could be posting out all eligable tournament entries (another 5 over the course of a season isn't much trouble)

Have to say that MK academy isn't a patch on ours :D

[Phil McBride]

yes the uni champs are only open to university students. There are two tournements that are also open to graduates.
My point is that these tournements are full of players who are of high standard. maybe the sbu should be targeting them and encouraging the players to play the tournements as well


Which ones are open to Graduates?

[SteveMiller]

Not to detract from the subject - have to agree with you, Phil, about the fact the Scotstoun's got leaps over MK!! Apart from the locatoin, of course :D

[The Forsaken]

The Forsaken was at the MK academy recently with it's pale green walls and light yellow lines and crappy wooden parquet flooring, 8 courts all in a row.

The only good thing about the place is it's changing rooms.

Milton Keynes is also devoid of any attractive females, any females under a size 14 and any night life.

Desolate urban office capital of the world.

[littlemissloud]

phil - the Scottish Universities Students & Former Students Xmas Level Doubles which is to be on the 10th or 17th dec this year and also Scottish Universities Students & Former Students mixed which is held in april

never went to the mixed last year but heard it was good, and the doubles is new this year. i believe they are both handicapped and also in pools as well

planning on going this year with a lot of players from the uni

[Phil McBride]

I think the problem badminton scotland has created for itself is the big gulf in standard between the small top group of players and the rest of the country. With the draws being so small in Scottish domestic tournaments it is likely for club players to come up against junior or senior internationals in the early rounds of a tournament. Now with entry fees increasing every year i think the desire for club players to enter a tournament and only play one game will decrease even further.
I believe the reason in this large gulf in quality is due to the lack of funding and attention badminton scotland has shown over the years to the club, county and also in a way regional development. It has become apparant over the past few years that funding is split over two types of age groups: the really young and international players.
Now i agree whole heartedly to pile a lot of money into young athletes to try lift the standard of badminton in Scotland. However, what i believe is that this has actually stopped temporarily the level of badminton increasing in this country, at least for the next 5-10 years.
Players are givin a lot of backing and funding at a young age then if they arent cutting it at international level by the age of around 18 funding stops and so do all squads nights. Players are therefore given a decision to either quit or continue to play through self-funding.
There is no longer a good enough standard in club players to bridge the gap between club and international level.
My theories on how this can be improved are as follows: firstly introduce players to club level or county level from an early age. The top countries in Europe (Denmark, Germany England) have a good club/county structure to produce their elite players. This could be achieved by turning regional squads into club nites? Not only would this bring a regular competitve edge into training nights but it also gives young athletes set goals, to get into the first team for instance.
Now as im aware bonanzas have been created to try and give club players competitive tournaments to play in. But after a successful year of these tournaments running how many of the players will now step up to the next level and compete in domestic events. I think very little if anyone will attempt it. Therefore i think a big effort should be made to try persaude bonanza participants to step up a level. If scottish domestic tournaments could have the same numbers which turn up for bonanzas then in my opinion the level of standard would gradually rise.

and before i get complaints from badmintonscotland supporters this is not a rant of how bad badminton scotland is. I believe the work they do is good im only stating an opion on an area which may have been overlooked in the past

Well as I said I'd play I will, I'm looking forward to get a game of someone that is so much better rather than the usual club games, just something about getting the opportunity to play against the best players around even if you get scelped 15-0 twice, something good about a reality check once in a while! Hate to think about who I hit first in the draw but the plate might be a bit better (HOPEFULLY, DOUBT IT THOUGH).

Anyway is McS going to be there this year?

[Phil McBride]

phil - the Scottish Universities Students & Former Students Xmas Level Doubles which is to be on the 10th or 17th dec this year and also Scottish Universities Students & Former Students mixed which is held in april

never went to the mixed last year but heard it was good, and the doubles is new this year. i believe they are both handicapped and also in pools as well

planning on going this year with a lot of players from the uni

Better not be taking Amanda with you! She has a lot of hard work ahead of her now her arm is better and can get back into things.

I wonder if I can get in after graduating from Paisley several years ago?

[Phil McBride]

Well as I said I'd play I will, I'm looking forward to get a game of someone that is so much better rather than the usual club games, just something about getting the opportunity to play against the best players around even if you get scelped 15-0 twice, something good about a reality check once in a while! Hate to think about who I hit first in the draw but the plate might be a bit better (HOPEFULLY, DOUBT IT THOUGH).

Anyway is McS going to be there this year?

Well they don't get any better, got scelped indeed off Craig and David 15-0,15-0.

[littlemissloud]

of course amanda will be coming!!! :-)

[Phil McBride]

of course amanda will be coming!!! :-)

If her arm doesn't pop, which it's on the verge of again by the looks of her playing :(

Although she is looking forward to playing in comps I hope the unis would be a decent level (mixed enough) so she will have a bit of fun.

Anyway someone needs to take over her coaching now! Any offers fom you or Jamie?

[littlemissloud]

its ok phil she has a proper coach in andy cook now :)