Size of the draw at the English Nationals

[JonC]

Just wondering what anyone thought about the size of the draws for the English nationals, particularly in mens and mixed doubles.

Has it always been a 24 draw?

Would it not be encouraging more players if that was expanded to 32, it's not as if the seeds should really "need" the bye in round 1? Surely there is enough depth in these 2 events to allow 8 more pairs in a national competition rather than deny players the opportunity to compete?

Is it a court or timing restriction that means only a certain number of games can be played?

Is there a big reserve list of players hoping for someone to pull out?

I know personally from playing Nationals in another country that we aim to accommodate as many players as possible of the appropriate level so it seems a bit strange to me to have such a small draw for what should be a large pool of English players. Certainly the numbers in the circuit tournaments, Challengers and Satellites, seem to show the volume of players are out there who could participate.

[Mauipoweruk]

It's been 24 at least for the past few years except in the Mens singles with 32. There is definately a reserve list for the Mens Singles (I know there are at least 7 but I imagine there are probably a lot more). I think the idea is to showcase the sport to spectaters and not let any of the lower standard players in. However you would have thought they could have a qualifying event like at the All England, so that anyone who wants a crack at the national title can have a go. (Perhaps 2 or 3 of the slots go to qualifyers?)

Looking at the draw though there is at least one player who didn't get in who has beaten several of the players in the draw but hasn't played enough tournaments to get a high ranking.

The standard in the mixed doubles looks particularly high so I imagine that there are some reasonable reserves in this too.

[johng]

Mauipoweruk, I kinda agree with you that it would be nice to have a qualifying competition for the Nationals, however you have to look at the practicalities, such as venue availabiliity, cost, volunteer support etc

Not sure what it is costing the sponsors and the city council but it is bound to be a good few thousand quid, perhaps they thought that they could not afford more

[Mauipoweruk]

I agree that realistically it is probably a step too far. In a way playing the tournaments all season to get a high enough ranking is the qualifying I suppose. I have no idea on the costs to run a tournament like this, but the entry fees are quite high and they will have paying sponsors (and hopefully a few spectators) so I would be suprised if Badminton England are making a loss.

[JonC]

Did the Nationals not used to go over more days? And I go back to the same two events, men's doubles and mixed doubles where I think it would warrant a bigger draw, I think to have a 32 draw in those events would add all of 16 more matches. That surely adds relatively little more.

Also I think some TV, if it could be generated, would provide more revenue opportunities and turn this into a bigger event. They managed to get some TV for the Elite finals with UKTV so surely with the hype with Robertson and Emms at the moment they could have generated some interest for the nationals and made it more of a showpiece?

Rankings should of course count as some sort of qualifying but I do agree that a qualifying event would be better and I don't think it would have to be a big event or cost the earth.

I am not sure of a better solution but rankings alone do not tell the full story either. There are many examples through the season where it must be the case that people have selected the more obscure or harder to travel to events to gain ranking points as when they come up against decent much lower ranked opposition they have been well and truly beaten. Maybe that is a failing of the circuit system which is a much wider debate!

As an outsider it all seems a bit unfair and a little contrived.

[PhoenixB]

I agree a qualifying event would be good for badminton in this country. I would like to see some published qualification criteria for the Nationals so players know what they are working towards. Perhaps the top 20 in the country automatically qualify for the first round. Then 4 wild cards that badminton england can give out for players like Edge and Constable. The remaining 8 places in the first round could be determined from a qualifying tournament. This tournament could be held in a normal leisure centre one or two weeks before the Nationals proper. All players pay the Nationals Entry fee so funding should not be a problem.

[Markostar]

Never thought about it before but a qualifying event may have helped me out this year. Having been injured from last xmas until July this year my ranking has dropped down massively and now I'm 4th reserve for this years nationals despite beating several players who are in the draw since coming back to playing this season. Bit of a pain in the arse from my point of view so perhaps theres something in your suggestion.

[Mauipoweruk]

I'm suprised they didn't give you a place anyway looking at the draw. So far there has been at least one drop out so I guess you may still have a chance of getting in mate.

[rhombus]

A qualifying event is probably only a good idea if there are genuinely players left out of the draw that could compete with non-seeds in the main event. Going back 15 years nearly all county restricted tournaments had qualifying events. I only have experience about the Kent Restricted, but having gone through 4-5 rounds of a qualifier, you were likely to come up against a load of internationals/top class 1st team county players in the main draw who would " eat you for breakfast". However it was probably the only time you would ever play them which in it's self is an experience. Again from the other side of the fence it is alot to organise over the whole of the country.

[FutureChamp]

It's a tragedy that Mark is not in the draw, when someone else (who everybody knows) is playing and will lose his 1st round game in around ten minutes.

Either the ranking system needs revamping or a qualifying tournament must take place in future years.

[Markostar]

I can imagine its going to be such fun, if I dont get in, having to sit in the stands watching that particular match. I just hope the people who decide who gets in the draw are there to see their glaring error.

[nasigoreng]

Future Champ, who are you talking about. C'mon, name him so we will know if you are right or wrong in your assessment.

[Markostar]

Nasi Goreng, there's no point in naming they guy as all that would come of it is embarrassing him. He's got as much right to enter and have his entry looked at properly as anyone else so its nothing to do with him really. This issue is that BE's system for selecting players obviously has flaws. There may not be a better way of doing things, I dont know, but I do know it sucks when your on the receiving end of its flaws.

[nasigoreng]

Quite Right.

[dlp]

Unfortunately the rankings on BE site only go up to August 05

[CWB]

The latest adult rankings on the BE site are December 2005, not August.

Unfortunately the latest junior rankings are for November 2005.

[Markymark]

Nick Kidd had a very close second set with Stephen Day!