Uber and Thomas Cups

[Markymark]

Home nations had mixed fortunes so far today.

Both the Scots and Enlglish ladies had very easy wins as expected. The Scots men lost to Austria although all the rubbers were very tight. Perhaps a little unlucky but with two new caps probably not too bad a result. The Welsh men beat Cyprus which is to be expected.

[feeder]

Welsh men beat Scotland 4-1 defeat today. Great result for the Welsh. The Scots had little to show for their efforts.

[Markymark]

Scottish men are going through a big transition at the moment. No real world class players but a young squad so hopefully things will improve.

[seanrachy]

........ also remember that Richard Vaughan didn't play for Wales in the win against Scotland.

Sean

[mcsmegor]

It is a "development" scottish team. Maybe a full strength team may have faired better. Possibly with a full strength team Scotland wouldve had a better chance of stealing some of the doubles games...then it could have been a completey different result.

[Thumb]

if anyone should understand the concept of a development team
it should be Wales. Look at the average age of your ladies-
sorry girls team in the Uber cup - and good luck to them.

Only time will tell if it is the right move for both Scottish men
and Welsh girls

[Markymark]

Well to be fair, they don't really have much choice. The so-called Development team is pretty much the full strength squad for Scotland's guys.

The Scots ladies are doing much better though. However, they will face a very strong Dutch side if they make it to the quarters. I actually think the Netherland could win the European competition on the ladies' side.

[Thumb]

think you are right Mark.

Pity about the ladies draw, if they had come up
against another team in the quarters you never
know what could have happened.

I would also put money on the Dutch to win the
ladies competition, not a bad team when the Olympic
silver medallist is only your second singles player

[Markymark]

They'll win all 3 singles against every team in there with Yao, Mia and Judith. And their doubles pairing are no slouches either. It's a tough draw for Scotland and a shame.

[nasigoreng]

Why is Harriet Johnson not in the Welsh Team? I thought in the absence of '38' year old mother Kelly Morgan, she was the Welsh No. 1.

[Golden Hands]

Congratulations to the Scottish ladies team, reaching the quarter finals stage of the Uber Cup. With the exception of Rita , they too are a young developing team and have shown that they have the talent to progress. Scottish badminton looks to have a strong foundation here to build upon. Pity about the draw for tomorrow, however player development is all about exposure to stronger and more experienced opposition. Well done girls! :)

[Markymark]

Yes - they did really well. I think they would have had a shout against any of the other teams in the quarter finals but I think they'll lose 5-0 to a very strong dutch team (who I think will win the whole thing!).

England have a great chance in the ladies' too although I can't see them winning any of the singles and that's why I think the Dutch will win. As for the men's, I think it's going to be an easy win for Denmark.

[North]

Yes they did lose 3 0 and the doubles players did not
get to play.

Great effort and hope in two years the young team will
have matured and benefited from this experience.

Looks like the Dutch could win 3 0 for the remainder of
the tournament (altho Germany could force them to play
doubles if on form - but doubtful)

If it is England v Dutch in final think it could be over
before England can play their strong doubles pairings,
who could take a singles against that line up???

[Thumb]

How different the Uber cup results would be if the teams
consisted only of players born in that country.

England v Denmark final perhaps??

Possibly Germany for third place

[nasigoreng]

England would struggle in the Thomas Cup then.

[Markymark]

Very true!!!

Although I think there is a difference between players who have moved to a country and married someone of that nationality, and someone who has just left their Asian homeland to comepete for another country cos they couldn't get into the Malaysian, Chinese or whatever country it might be's squad.

[nasigoreng]

Nick Kidd was former Junior Australia champion.. Does he count?

[johng]

anybody got a weblink for results?

[AXC]

How different the Uber cup results would be if the teams
consisted only of players born in that country.

England v Denmark final perhaps??

Possibly Germany for third place


I agree but the Dutch, French and German top players are all Chinese rejected from the main Chinese squad, or not even considered in the first place, so where can they go to practice their trade as they are so good? I think badmonton should welcome these players even if they keep local players out of there national team because the audience get to see better games with better quality players. However, I do understand the wish for home grown talent only.

England still persues the home grown approach, which I agree with, as we have an large population that we should be able to tap in to. However, we do not get a proportionate uptake of badminton amongst our different races within England.

Because I agree with the "home grown" policy and the taking on of excellent players from abroad I think I have painted myselfe into a corner that is not consistent.

Cheers

[redkingjoe]

Because I agree with the "home grown" policy and the taking on of excellent players from abroad I think I have painted myselfe into a corner that is not consistent.


i totally support the "home grown" policy but i also would like to take on excellent players from all over the world....me too...me too.... :o

you can't have the cake and eat it...there's chinese saying "you can't have both the fish and the bear's hand"

cheers2

[Markymark]

The Scots for one would love to have Robert Blair back!!

[nasigoreng]

some english squad doubles players would like that as well. :D

[guch]

i dont think they would actually!

[nasigoreng]

Guch,
how would you feel if you 'man or woman' had been training hard in the squad, and you were by right, next in line for a place in the team, and suddenly next week some 'scot' , 'welshperson' or 'irishperson' defected and took your place in the England team. How would you feel?

[Luncheon]

extremely agrieved I would have thought!!!!

[Markymark]

I'm pretty sure Natalie Munt and Anthony Clark are pleased he defected. They wouldn't be winning as much without him!

[Luncheon]

I'm not starting an argument, or trying to cause any problems.
But if Blair hadn't joined England, Clark might still have been playing with Robertson.
Something, if news articles are to be believed......he didn't want to split up from before.

[Markymark]

Robert and Anthony have had better results IMO. And Nathan made the decision to quit. It was only then that Robert was paired with Anthony.

[Luncheon]

Robertson split with Clark to play with Blair

[guch]

to be honest i would be abit annoyed obviously but it would make u work harder to try earn ur place again. could infact make u a better player u not think?

[nasigoreng]

do you think any of the english players would be happy if Gao Ling or even Thomas Laybourn defected to England, and took their places in the team.
I would then tell them, you worked for years and got good results to get in this position, but now we have some defectors who are taking your places.! NEVER MIND, it'll make you work harder and might even make you a better player.
PHISH. :rolleyes:

[Markymark]

If they defected, they would have no choice but to do so.

If the rules allow people to do this, then the best players have to be selected - regardless of their 'original' nationality. It's not exactly a new phenomenon. Monica Seles and Martina Navratilvoa were not born US citizens.

[Luncheon]

Tony Gunawan and Howard Bach - current World Champions for United States.

But the point was that - people who have been working very hard to be in consideration for the national team, suddenly find themselves further behind by a foreigner - must surely be dissatisfied.
If you ignore the fact that maybe (I don't know) Roebuck and Blair might be friends, Roebuck is one step further back because Blair is in the England team and not the Scottish team.

If Blair hadn't of joined England, Roebuck might now be playing with Clark. Or any other squad member - I was just using a name as an example....not saying that Roebuck feels this way.

[nasigoreng]

MarkyMark,
I thought you were against it unless they moved as a foetus or married Mr Wemyss??? and now you're citing Hingis and Navratilova.

[Markymark]

Where did I say I was against it? And where did I say I thought it was ok for Seles (not Hingis!) and Navratilova to defect?

I said there was a difference between those who move and marry to those who can't get a place on their national squad. I think the former is more acceptable. But as the rules allow both, we have to accept it.

[nasigoreng]

You are not against it but you don't think its ok. I am confused., but ok, ok, you accept because its the rules. But are you for it or against it. you will get splinters sitting on the fence for too long.
I can understand those that move if they cannot get in their national squad because they need to pay for food.
But what about Mr Blair who can get in the national team never mind squad but move anyway? :p

[Markymark]

I would prefer that people don't move just because they can't get into National squads.

Robert moved for a variety of reasons. His game has come on since leaving Scotland and he is, in my opinion, the second most talented guy on the English team.

[nasigoreng]

I cannot argue with that.

[Martin Dew-Hattens]

Well done to the English girls in beating Denmark.

Each county has a development which goes in circles. The present circle of Danish training is based very heavily on destroying the club system and getting players into one of many small training units.

For example the U19 girls champ Maria Ropke does not get onto the top national training. Instead she takes part in a training cell in which there are three girls. So she never gets any doubles practice and cannot get a crack at the supposed better girls. This type of restrictive approach is ensuring the Danish girls and to some extent the boys are going to struggle over the next few years.

Denmark has had many years of Camilla and Peter but very soon they are going to get a shock of a gigantic size which I hope will wake them up.

Very recently I thought our club had lost one of its best junior players. Actually the case was he was invited to another cell and so did not go to club training any more. This sort of arrangement is killing the clubs.

The Danish management are not helping by making it clear that selection has little to do with results but on a personal attitide and depending if your face fits. This maybe also happens in England since Kidd does not get picked for England ! I have it in writing to the effect "it must be clear that selection will also be a subjective process". This indicates that the trainers want control over the players and at present have it.
Only when the players have condfidence in the system that results means selections once again will young players be bothered to put the hours into the task at hand.


There is no doubt that Demark will suffer in the next few years. By all accounts Finn T seems to be doing a good job and is reverseing some of the decision of previous years but he has a long political battle ahead.

I hope he manages to secure larger training groups and a feeling of "results implies selection".

[Luncheon]

Tough draws for both Thomas and Uber Cups.

THOMAS CUP
Group A
CHINA
GERMANY
INDIA

Group B
KOREA
INDONESIA
NEW ZEALAND

Group C
DENMARK
JAPAN
SOUTH AFRICA

Group D
MALAYSIA
ENGLAND
USA

At least we're not in New Zealands place.....both Indonesia and Korea in the same group!!!
Might do alright against Malaysia and USA......have to pick up singles....if Gunawan plays we won't get anything from mens doubles.

UBER CUP
Group W
CHINA
CHINESE TAIPEI
USA

Group X
NETHERLANDS
ENGLAND
HONG KONG CHINA

Group Y
KOREA
GERMANY
SINGAPORE

Group Z
JAPAN
NEW ZEALAND
SOUTH AFRICA