How to beat Emms and Robertson ?

[Martin Dew-Hattens]

This might provoke some responses.

I saw the two stars play 3 times in the last few weeks and it struck me that the Danish players do not play in such a way which is likely to maximise their chances of beating Gail and Nathan.

I know what I would do (given I was 20 years younger) since they do have weaknesses I feel I could exploit. Maybe I should speak with Finn T and give him some hints!

How would you go about it ?

If some interesting ideas come up here I'll post my ideas in a few days.

[Badboy]

The obvious response would be to drag the games out, perhaps playing an almost level doubles formation in the first game to really make nathan work. The english pair certainly prefers out and out attack and gail especially likes to counter attack off the power of the smash, so maybe slowing down the game when attacking her, making her put her own pace on the shots and work a bit harder. She does seem very lift happy if you do get the chance to get that first net shot or drop shot in so that perhaps could be exploited.

Zhang and gao certainly used the get everything back tactic to good practice in the all england final, frustrating gail into making mistakes and managing to get enough back with nathan that he either went for that shot which was that bit too good, (or he'd win the point to be fair) or he'd run out of steam.

Just to contradict myself, the two pairs that did the best at the all england were the chinese pairs both of whom are extremely attacking, and if you can control the net and stop the english from getting on the attack then you do seem to do quite well. But with respect to the English pair this is very difficult to do and if you cant quite manage it, it plays perfectly into their hands and you can find yourself of the wrong side of a nasty rout.

[rhombus]

I agree with Badboy that slowing down the game would reduce Gail's ability to dominate certain areas. Boy has she got a fantastic crouch defense at the net on the return of the smash. Obviously the return off the smash is either an outright winner, or puts the man in serious trouble on the next shot. As mentioned in other threads, if I was in the top 10-15 pairs in the world, with their ability, I would be concentrating on Nathan attitude i.e. when the going gets tough as in the All England final and some other matches, he does not seem to be at the races. I have never seen Gail not give 100%. If that means slowing the game down and concentrating on getting everything back to frustrate Nathan then that would be my tactic. Having seen Martin play mixed several times at the All England I look forward to his comments.

[Smurf]

I haven''t watched Emms and Robertson enough to be able to answer this (sorry Martin but mixed is my least favourite discipline :p ) but it seems like a good opportunity to raise the point that learning to play and learning to win are two distinct areas, and it seems the Danes have scimped a bit on the latter, which is suprising given their experience and the experience and knowledge they have available to them from the Danish squad.
As unpatriotic as it is i think you should have a word with Mr T :D

[coops]

having watched nathan and gails matches a fair bit for 'how to play mixed' tactics the best strategies i can come up with are..

1. don't smash crosscourt at all - even if this means having to smash at nathan! as people have pointed out gails defence is superb
2. don't be afraid to lift it - if you can keep getting nathan's smash back to decent length he will tire, and as a bonus gail will begin to get frustrated and try to win the rally as the earliest opportunity
3. move nathan side to side, this should result in either him getting tired or gail ending up at the back - once that's achieved you should be pinning her to the back corners to stop her getting and and nathan taking over.

ok - that's for now - likewise - i'll be interested in what martin has to say

Coops

[Martin Dew-Hattens]

Good answers. All valid . Here is my approach


Both Gail and Nathan have improved vastly in the last couple of years. They are a world class pair BUT all players have their weaknesses. This is just a bit of fun to try and work out where other world class players could exploit their weaknesses.

Mixed is what I call “Chess for Sportsmen”. It’s a game of cat and mouse in which you are trying to find that edge to make wider and wider until the opponent is totally beaten in a state of checkmate.

Lets take a look at each player in turn:-

Nathan

Flamboyant, charismatic, unusual, aloof, exotic. Big framed, and not the most mobile player in the world. Note that words I would not use are stability and concentration.

Gail

Pin up girl, good net player, good defence, mental leader of the team. Likes to be away from the back line. Never going to be a power house so wins by the skill approach.


Now lets look at some of the facets of the game:-

Mobility

In general mixed players (like myself) are failed singles players. We could not bear the thought of racing from one corner to the other to fetch a shuttle which is placed in all those irritating places. A mixed player who has changed from singles to doubles or has good mobility is always a premium player.

Neither Gail or Nathan are in the highly mobile category.

Power

Nathan has a smash which he seems to make a winner more than I would expect. He chooses his smashes well and only goes for the big hit when at 2/3rds court depth or less.

Gails smash is reasonable but she concentrates mostly on getting back into the net after a well placed smash.

Skill

A skilful pair. Gail is great at the net and Nathan has all the little cross court and deceptive shots which make them world class.

Nathan loves to put pressure on the serve. He leans very much over towards the net with an exaggerated angle to an extent which I would say he is off balance.

Concentration

Gail seems to be the factor which holds them together. Nathan very often goes on walkabout which indicates there is something else going on inside his head on various occasions.

Tactics

Generally the tactic is to get Gail to be queen of the net. At long as Nathan does not lift too much without good reason then many rallies are won by Gail or around the net area. Nathan loves to have unwarranted joy rides to the front of the court where Gail is already to be found leaving large gaps at the rear wide open.

Many opponents stick to a game plan to trying to keep the shuttle low and around the net. This is just to Gails liking. In the end they get frustrated and Nathan is around to snap up a loose half court “something”.


SO WHATS MY GAME PLAN
----------------------------------

Well, at my age is would be to fill Nathan with booze the night before.

More realistically however :-


1) Exploit Nathans stance in receiving serve. His body balance is so far on the front foot that flick serves high and wide to his forehand will make him travel maximum distance and put him under extreme pressure. Keep the serve varied to keep him guessing.

2) Exploit Gails relative weakness at the rear court. Serve long sometimes– not even a flick serve - to let her know that you know it’s a problem for her. Nathan will be forced to move into the front of the court and then Gail should be moved from corner to corner.

3) Exploit relative lack of mobility. Always play with speed but not necessarily power. Make Nathan cover as much ground as quickly as possible.

4) Ovoid Gails ability to return smash. Don’t always smash at Gail with power. A much more effective approach is the steep smash that Martin Lungaard uses most of the time. Better still don’t let her use her crouch defence. Pick your spot better so that the shuttle is not directed towards her racket. Quite honestly a crouch defence only works if you hit it to her racket! Also if she is in the crouch defence position then she has to be wide open to an attacking clear.

5) Exploit Nathan’s lack of concentration. Now there are ways in which players use tactics close to the edge of the rules to wind each other up mentally. If you don’t know them then I am not going to tell you them here in a public document. The aim however is to wind Nathan up to an extent in which he looses his rag and concentration.

6) Get yourself a rock solid defence since this type of game will require it. The Chinese beat our two stars by this route. Both Nathan and Gail get depressed about not getting the shuttle down and start making mistakes.

7) Return serve by pushing Nathan deep into one corner or the other. Far too many points are lost by trying to make some fiddly half court shot which only puts their opponents in more trouble.

8) Be hyper aware that both the players love to come forward to control the net. Hence if my partner was not already at the net to cover the net return then use a power related shot or otherwise cut your losses and lift to the back line. You might say – what’s with all this lifting? Well, the shuttles are so slow, if you are an international player then if you make a good lift to the back line then you are not going to be bothered by a smash. So many coaches use the concept of keeping the shuttle low they forget that to uses the total court area you sometimes have to give the shuttle some breathing space. Others less technically minded use the terminology “get rid of it”. Gail and Nathan win many points on the counter attack in which Gail makes some sort of winner at the net – so remove the opportunity - get rid of it!!

9) Many matches seem to take place in the front half of the court with Gail making a lot of winners at the net. Use the corners more – move Nathan away from the centre of the court and neutralise Gails strength.

10) Don’t worry about using deception too much. Many deceptive shots will only result in taking the shuttle low and late. This is the opposite of what you need against this pair.

11) In many ways what I am talking about here is playing singles against Nathan. Keep Nathan moving and Gail away from the net.

QED.


Try it next time you get beaten by them !

[FutureChamp]

All very well and good on paper, but Nathan and Gail are good enough to be able to counter-act all of this by exposing the bigger weaknesses of their opponents.

[rhombus]

Dear FutureChamp, as mentioned by Martin who you may never have seen play, but was not a bad mixed player himself, get everything back and frustrate Nathan. I seem to remember that this is exactly what the chinese pair did in the All England only a couple of months ago (15-1 in the final set). I am sure that some of the other world class pairs will be able to exploit their weaknesses.

[FutureChamp]

Well i'm sure the chinese pair wouldn't want to give them five match points every time - chances are they'll take one of them next time and we'll never see a third set.

[Smurf]

All very well and good on paper, but Nathan and Gail are good enough to be able to counter-act all of this by exposing the bigger weaknesses of their opponents.
That's quite a general response to a specific scenario. Interesting point of view though.
Are you saying that Nathan's serve is always good enough to not allow the opposition to return it deep into the corners? (point 7)
And that Nathan and Gail never give the opposition the opportunity to smash and hence the opportunity to steep smash at Gail? (point 4)
And that Nathan has the ability to cut out every wide and deep flick serve before it puts him under pressure? (point 1)
And that Gail never allows herself to get pushed to the back of the court, or that when she's there she's strong enough to not allow the opposition to run her from side to side? (point 2)
etc.

If that's the case i must start watching them more often cos i'm obviously missing talent i've never seen in any other players!
I'm also curious to know what you think they did wrong in the All England final? And the olympic final?

[daveyk]

just frustrate them!! yeah like people have said just keep returning nathan n he'll lose concentration n try harder things which WILL cause errors. but i dont want to get involved about nathans ability again but they are both talented players so it will take talented players to beat them. who can actually return nathans smashes to frustrate him and gail's for that. so who could do it? :confused:

[coops]

i think i can see what FutureChamp is trying to get at..

in order to ptu into action all the suggestions we have we assume that either of the oppostion are actually in a position / capable of doing them.

of course if nathan / gail can exploit their opponents weaknesses better then they will never end up in trouble themselves - the one thing that can be done without having to do anything out of the ordinary is defend - which in itself is quite difficult - but the chinese have achieved it a few times.

the fact that nathan and gail are at the top shows that at the moment there are few games that they will come under such problems. but this is a hypothetical thread so lets not get bogged down in what can't be done, lets just assume that we can do what we like. and not worry about whether nathan / gail can counteract it..

Coops

[ants]

I think Gail and Nathan will laugh when they read these posts. :)

[rhombus]

Dear ants,
Did'nt Martin Dew win the All England Mixed twice with someone called Gillian Gilks, so I think his comments maybe relevant ?