Scotland at the Commonwealths

[Markymark]

So, we didn't enter a team, instead choosing to concentrate on the individuals.

And on the first morning, we lose one of our four entrants. Dear oh dear.

[nasigoreng]

Hi Markymark,
At work again, so no access to telly. What a bummer. Which scot is out and who is through? Thanks.
Is there any way I can access results of the badders on the web???

[soup]

not sending a team to the games just represents the type of job dan travers has done at the top level of the game in scotland.
he has and always will be concerned with the limelight while his understudies lack personality or character.
mr travers may have repsect as a former player (and current veteran) but where are all the characters who played in the great era when dan and billy gilliland were about. there were so many players of a standard that should be involved now.
lottery funding surely more wisely spent on getting them involved.

strong views but you need diversity and different ideas coming into the game. scottish coaches also lacked any backbone.

s

[Markymark]

I agree that Mr Traver's involvement needs to be looked at. Results are not being delivered and something has to change.

Yuan Weymss lost in the first round. She had a tough first round against the Indian girl but having recently beaten Tracey Hallam, she should have been aiming for a medal. She was the higher ranked player. Perhaps playing in a team event would have prepared her better!!

[nasigoreng]

Markymark,
I know some of you are still sore about no representation at the Team event ( fully discussed and documented, in previous posts), but after you have seen the medals positions, realistically, which colour medal do you think Scotland would have got, bearing in mind Rita lost to the Indian girl today. I know, I know, Susan would have played in the WS.

[Markymark]

I don't think they would have won a medal.

But they should have still competed. Would have been a good warm up for the individuals.

[soup]

not only does mr travers position need reviewing but also the constantly quoted Anne Smillie of the SBU. rarely has there been a person who delights more than seeing her own quotes in badminton editorial. not good for the game at all. she has little respect from the players.
time now for change in the scottish game from top to bottom. i say again, when the likes of ex- sales manager for Carlton, Tommy hepburn devoted his life to the game and still organises a club enjoying 60 members every wednesday night (including summer) i am flabbergasted that the sbu don't consider parting with some lottery funding and tempt him back to the game.
think we should petition a list, calling for two high profile resignations as per the heading of this email.

s

[Markymark]

I think maybe we should wait til the Commonwealths are over, but the only player who has any hope of getting past the third round is Susan Hughes. And even then it's not a dead cert.

Dan Travers has said in the past that the Scottish men are committed enough. But perhaps we need to be asking why that is?

[soup]

that mr travers made if that is true. oh well perhaps the old travers legacy of womanising and being the centre of attention has blinkered his capabilites???
roger mills was far more inspirational in the role. as we know today in sport, mental prep and confidence is really important. it's obvious to me, the scottish guys need some serious work.
how humiliating it must have been for some of the guys to find the ladies in the main mens draw at a recent competition. i think that says it all!!!


s

[Markymark]

Well, admittedly, that was more about getting the ladies some tougher opposition. But they were both soundly beaten - as you would expect.

[Phil McBride]

not only does mr travers position need reviewing but also the constantly quoted Anne Smillie of the SBU. rarely has there been a person who delights more than seeing her own quotes in badminton editorial. not good for the game at all. she has little respect from the players.
time now for change in the scottish game from top to bottom. i say again, when the likes of ex- sales manager for Carlton, Tommy hepburn devoted his life to the game and still organises a club enjoying 60 members every wednesday night (including summer) i am flabbergasted that the sbu don't consider parting with some lottery funding and tempt him back to the game.
think we should petition a list, calling for two high profile resignations as per the heading of this email.

s

Difference is that as i have said before there is no way Anne will leave that office in another thread on this very topic. The only way to get shot is to have a very well liked player or ex-player stand against her that doesn't have an agenda.

As for Dan? Who will replace him?

As for Tommy, he organises very well, has an abundance of knowledge and is still held in high regard by those that matter - US!

On the other hand would he go to work for the S.B.U. - I have my doubts he would want to be associated with them and their reputation.

I would love for him to stand for office but he isn't up for it.

[soup]

if the sbu wen't in humble mode, with a meaningful position he would jump at the chance.

[soup]

DON'T LET AN OBVIOUS LACK OF CHOICE IN SCOTLAND BLINKER THE FACT THAT A NEW HEAD OF ELITE PLAYERS SHOULD BE SOUGHT AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
OPEN THE POSITION UP AND SEE WHO APPLIES.

[Maverick]

have to agree with you on Travers and Smillie needing to go. Not sending a team was bad enough but to then have players that get a lot of the funding losing in 1st rounds, and playing really badly (not sure if anyone else was unfortunate enough to witness it on TV). There cant be any excuses, changes have to be made, not just with personnel but with the way athlete funding is distributed. More players need to be given a chance to compete and train at the top level only then will we have strength in depth. Right now we a situation where so many talented players are lost after U19, some being told there's no place for them in elite scottish badminton, Im sure you can all name a few. Arguably our most naturally talented male is colin hill yet not a lot is being done to encourage him or motivate him to want to train on a full time basis. Basically I think it has been proven once and for all that the current system and way of thinking is failing, but then again most of us could see that anyway!

[soup]

there are so many alternative training and confidence building angles i feel should be looked at now. sport being so much about mind games and confidence.
why not look at an ex palyer working in conjuntion with a sports phsycologist? fresh thinking fresh motivation?

[Phil McBride]

there are so many alternative training and confidence building angles i feel should be looked at now. sport being so much about mind games and confidence.
why not look at an ex palyer working in conjuntion with a sports phsycologist? fresh thinking fresh motivation?

But will they be able to talk crap to the papers and give good after tournament parties like the current occupants?

[soup]

well put. i have my own suggestions but uppermost the game is totally shot in scotland.

[Phil McBride]

well put. i have my own suggestions but uppermost the game is totally shot in scotland.

I think thats a bit harsh considdering that the players are trying their best and some of them are playing their hearts out despite not getting funding from obvious sources.

Some of the players out of the system are getting good results, probably just as well otherwise they'd get slated in the papers by Dan as not being committed enough and putting other things first which might or might not be true. Who knows? :rolleyes:

There are options available but they need money and fairness neither of which the SBU has historicaly had!

As for Tommy, he has said several times he is not interested in being part of the organisation. Shame, how's about it Tommy? I know you read this sometimes especially when your favourite trouble maker is about and up for a ruck! ;) :eek:

[The Expert]

Surely the problem is that Scotland is very poor at mens singles with nobody prepared to push themselves to be European class never mind World Class. I don't see anyone taking the initiative just lots of petty politics and people expecting to be spoon fed.

Good players will succeed in spite of the system and not because of it, get some of the young men off their complaining backsides and out into Denmark or Malaysia instead of sitting at home in Glagow sending crying messages to this bulletin board.

If they see how Malaysians and Indonesians with nothing make themselves World Class then they might understand.

Watch Wacha of Poland win at an EBU with nobody not even a coach or fellow player to support him and understand that the only person that is responsible for you is you.

Scotland is crap at Mens Singles, it's the players faults and only they can do something about it regardless of the management!

[Godfather]

Hi Guys, watching the tournament with curiousity, as are most of you no doubt. Mainly because i think Susan has a good chance of the semi-finals...i think she should get there. As for the medal, then who knows (i didn't know it was a play-off until the other day, so i thought she was going to win one for a semi spot).

From a players perspective, looking at the some of the matches, and players i know who are there...some of our lot could be there !! I'm also including factors like watching the other sports, such as swimming, athletics, shooting etc etc Scotland are doing well, and even in events that they ain't expected to win, they are competing bravely. It just seems a shame looking back on what decisions were made that some of the guys didn't get the same swan song or experience that athletes in other sports, or in the badminton event are getting right now. The more i watch this Games the more i am for the taking part, even in this age of elitism.

I myself shouldn't be there, i'm not implying that... i wouldn't merit a place in a Scotland squad yet, but i feel for the guys who missed out now...but i also agree with those who are saying that if we are indeed following a 'medal potential structure' now, then it is up to us now. I didn't realise that in the last 4 years, but i do now.

Im watching with a bit of intrigue as i don't know whats gona happen next in our structure. It depends really if Susan can pull out a medal i think. But next season, who knows. If its the same as this season, where some people are forgotten about, then that ain't healthy.

For me this season was a lost cause in September, as i lost my doubles partner, was already out the SIS, had heard there was no team going, and had 4th of Uni amongst other things to look forward to. I didn't expect much, so i decided to give singles a go while i never had a partner....I reached 3 semis and 1 final this season, so i was pretty chuffed.... without actually training too hard - i just incorporated more singles into my training and worked with individual coaches, and on my own, rather than being part of the SIS squad for the 1st time in 3-4 years. I had been pished towards doubles since i was 18, and had only played singles for fun. It was nice to get out there and play the event again with a bit more belief and reward. Being on the outside definitely helped me, because i could decide on my own training, and know that any improvements were down to me.

I probably wasn't working as hard as i should have been before but i couldnt move forward until i admitted that to myself...however i certainly wasnt the only 1. It was hard not to be bitter, but i turned a lot of it into motovation.

I finish Uni next month and aim to start a full time training and coaching programme. Some have questioned my reasons, asking whats the point...but im still 21 and have the urge now to do things for myself, play more English events, the odd EBU, and fight hard for a place in the national team. 1 bit at a time. Even if i dont set the world alight, i still want to get that cap for Scotland...not through being in a squad, or kissing arse, but so i know that ive did it for myself, and those who believe in me. Thats the short term aim. A lot of my close mates within the men's side are reaping the benefits of hard training on their own and i'm delighted for them...they are genuinely great blokes.

Anyway, hopefully a national squad can get setup for those outside the SIS, but like a lot of things right now, who knows. This wasn't a rant or a boast or anything, just a players opinion after a weird season.

PS I wish people like Tom Courtney, Alison Fulton etc etc and some of the above were involved more, but i now know why they got out of the sport. The Uni team even contacted Tom a few months back to coach our team, but as passionate as he was, he had to respectfully decline. A strongly missed doubles coach throughout the last few years.

[Markymark]

Emma & Imogen should definitely be there.

But I think the point is being missed. The Scottish swimmers are not bravely taking part. They are world class most of them. Swimming at the Commonwealths is probably nearer to world standard than any of the other sports. Caitlin McClathie, Gregor Tait and David Carry could all win Olympic medals.

With all the best will in the world, Scotland is nowhere near world class in Men's singles, Men's Doubles and Mixed Doubles. Emma & Imogen could get there and Susan & Rita are there although Rita has underperformed in singles at the commonwelaths.

It's all a bit of a mess and I don't know what the answer is. But the current system isn't working and it needs to be changed.

[Markymark]

And we all breathe a sigh of relief as Susan scrapes through 21-19 19-21 21-18!

[Godfather]

Out of interest do those swimmers not all train and live outside Scotland?

I'm just curious as to whether they will be doing the same programme as the ones up here. Regardless, they've become world class in their field, and thats asks whether going outside of Scotland (but still competing for us) is a good option for badminton players. I trained in Denmark when i was 18 for a couple of weeks only, but even that was enough time to see the comparison between us and them, and i know the door was left open if i wanted to go back and train in the summer time or whatever.

PS the term 'bravely taking part' wasn't attached to the swimmers...it was related to all the other athletes who ain't winning medals but are giving their all for their country and getting into the spirit of the games. My point is - they are there, yet more badminton players aint.

[Markymark]

Yep - fair enough. Scotland could have had a much bigger squad there who would have done ok. Paul le Toq and Elena Johnson are in the last 16 of the mixed for Guersney and we have Scottish uni players who would beat them.

I think training outside of Scotland could be a positive thing, but would it be allowed? I doubt it. Kelly Morgan probably could have won Olympic medals if she had left Wales.

[soup]

the whole essence of the game in scotland needs changing. actually i also feel (i know friends south of the border will disagree) but i feel one reason that the game fails to attract tv and top bucks sponsorship is because of the way our game is taught run and played. ok tennis is a globally accepted sport enjoying massive sponsorship. that said it has a certain image in the UK ie upper crust with a class stigma. badminton???? overall viewing on tv is pretty boring. why? lack of controversy or in your face characters.
i think when officialdum run a school teacher type mentality, you end up with clones, boring ones.
looking back to the english game, top player like kevin jolly were entertainers. the whole thing from top to bottom needs refreshing.

[The Expert]

Scotland appears to have have created a results/medals culture/performance culture at too young an age.

This means that big hard hitting physical boys (who win in junior badminton) get the support and encouragement at the key stages and those who are developmental probably don't.

The transition stage between junior and senior is where Scotland lose everything.

The Big Boys are only like so many other EBU players on the circuit and the boys that needed developing,encouragement have dropped out.

More Scots should think outside of the system and look at ways of doing their own thing. The system is patently incapable of producing and nurturing mens singles players.

If you are a young Scot with aspirations to be the best my advice is use what you can from the system, accept it doesn't produce quality mens singles players and go out in the world and find your own solution.

Go to University in England and join a High Performance Cell, go and work in Denmark and join a club, go and train in Malaysia or Indonesia (for much less money than people think).

Stop moaning about Dan and Anne and the SBU just go out and prove them wrong.

Scotland will love you for it!

[dlp]

A few points :

CWG is not a world badminton event and is in no way the measure to use of where any country is on the world badminton stage.

You cannot compare the 40 odd medals on offer in swimming to the 5 individual medals available in badminton. Further, swimming is a time trial event, if you have the technique and the genetic potential you can train alone in a pool on the falklands and set a world class time, you are not reliant on anyone else, in badminton you are simply not going to produce a world class player or pair in isolation of other players of similar ability, regardless of coaching / structures etc, a coach may improve the performance of the players but to get near the top is going to take years.

There are many countries who have top coaches, imported asian players and are producing world class players who weren't even on the badminton map twenty years ago: Germany, Singapore, Hong Kong, Thailand, Poland, France, Japan all now have top players who can beat the English in some events let alone Scotland.

[Markymark]

A rather strange post.

You show a gross misunderstanding of swimming. The swimmers who won medals in the Commonwealths are the same swimmers (with the exception of two) who failed so miserably in Athens and in the recent world championships. Australia are a leading force in swimming and they did not perform to the level expected of them (particularly on the men's side). It's not just about putting the time in in the pool. The people around you are very important, and so someone could swim all they want in the Falklands but they'd have a tough time making it on the world stage without the necessary support from coaches and colleagues.

Additionally, I think English badminton is as strong as it's been in a long time. They have world class players in all events, apart from men's singles, and potential Olympic champions in Emms & Robertson. None of the teams you mention are as strong as England.

[dlp]

None of the teams you mention are as strong as England.
I said these countries can beat the english in some events, not are better than England.

The swimmers who won medals in the Commonwealths are the same swimmers (with the exception of two) who failed so miserably in Athens and in the recent world championships. Australia are a leading force in swimming and they did not perform to the level expected of them

Thats my point, its much easier to raise the standard of swimmers by applying a new training programme than of badminton players, a swimming coach can make an impact in a relatively short time. A badminton coach may be able to improve fitness in a few months but is unlikely to be able to change the technique, tactics, experience etc of a player and is often working with athletes whose mental and physical potential may be far below the best in the world.

[Godfather]

On a side note, Interestingly enough Soup, you have just rounded up half of my 10,000 word dissertation on the 'lack of TV coverage of badminton in the UK' in about 3 or 4 sentences: The use of character.

I've learned how valuable sports stars are to the reputation of the sport, and how they are essentially the characters who tell the stories, and keep the audience entertained. Shame i have to write about 2,000 words on it.

Having recognisable stars in the sport would be a big deal. My friends, who know nothing about the game have been watching the Games coverage and find it hard to get excited since they know little about who is taking part. Nathan himself says in interviews that players need to win more on the world stage, and then the publicity will come, fair enough.

Anyway, i just wanted to point that out - a lot of the problems can be summed up in 2 or 3 sentences, yet it seems like dealing with these problems is often being made harder than it should be. Badminton Scotland are doing a good job in publicising next years World Champs, it would be great to have a large amount of TV coverage there.

Back to the main topic...

[soup]

i actually would include nathan robertson's character in the boring category!!! really good top player undoubted BUT charisma???? pretty lacking for the british public. sorry nathan you are very good but not strong enough personally to draw in legions of new fans.
i watched the all-england with the usual interest and the game is reaching amazing levels. you look at golf, boxing tennis and other sports, the british public always adopted forgeign celebs as their own ie sevy,
mike tyson and john mcenroe. who would it be in badminton?

s

[Markymark]

Things looking up a bit as Susan Hughes is now in the quarter finals of the singles to meet an unseeded player from Singapore.

Andrew Bowman and Kirsteen McEwan-Miller are also in the quarters but they now meet Robertson & Emms.

[Markymark]

So Susan Hughes has a shot at the bronze against Elizabeth Cann. She normally gets the better of her but I think it will be a tight one.

[KevinStangoe]

I would be very interested to know how many officials Scotland has sent with the players following the decision not to enter a team in the team event. By officials i mean coaches, team managers and SBU officials on a freebie?

[badmintoncoach]

Good point

[nasigoreng]

Who is the woman who sits next to Dan Travers on the coaches seats. :o

[Ray]

The support team for the Scottish athletes in the Badminton event are Dan Travers Head institute & National coach. Christine Black Manager. Steve Bannon Psychologist.Mandy Belch Physio.
S.B.U officials to my knowledge two have paid their own way to support. One is actually working in helping run the event with no reward other than love for the game.
Dan Travers gives many hours per week on a voluntary basis to Scottish Badminton & the preparation for the games has been extensive & proffessional. Thankyou to the many people who have supported the players & their efforts. Lets hope Susan can win a medal for herself & Scotland

[KevinStangoe]

Thanks Ray, pretty much what i thought.

My critisism is in sending 4 courtside officials to 5 players and is based on the SBU's own statement of not entering a team in the team event due to costs. I know they said there wasn't a hope in hell of winning a team medal but that is beside the point. Nice to know that the players have the full backing of officialdom and what they think of their playing abilities!!

It would be nice to here the coaches view points on the decision not to enter a team, but i suppose they are not allowed to express their opinions publicly.

I hope Susan does win the medal she deserves, but here's another thought, Has the Scottish system taken her as far as they can, is it time for her to do a "Robert Blair" and move south to take her game to the next level and become British and European No 1. I believe she has the talent to do so. ( Sorry Syph, no critisism on your coaching, just me stirring it for a bit of debate)

[Markymark]

Who is the woman who sits next to Dan Travers on the coaches seats. :o

Christine Black. She used to coach me as part of the Edinburgh Uni team. Great woman. :)