Coaching courses

[pompey]

I'd like to hear some opinions on the coaching qualifications Level 1 and Level 2. I'm interested in obtaining a qualification but I'm put off by the need to hold the Level 1 (or equivalent) before taking the Level 2.
The requirements for entry to Level 1 seem abysmally low -

- have some experience of playing the game and can participate in a short rally, or;
- can demonstrate knowledge and understanding of what is required when playing the game and the technicalities required when participating in a short rally.

I'm no Lin Dan, but I've played county level and think I've got a good grasp of the game so I'm not keen on coughing up £195 to go on a course with people "who can play a short rally".
After getting the level 1 it's a further £350 for the level 2 to be able to coach independently. It all seems prohibitively expensive to me. If it's independently assessed as stated then surely if you feel you are good enough to go on the course then it should be up to you?

[zeddie]

lol.. i have been looking for a coach myself for a while now.. believe it or not i met a "level one" coach in our local club who has been playing for years and years apparently. seemed like a very arrogant but confident chap. What surprised me most was that he didnt know what pronation and supination of the forearm was when i asked him about the correct way to do it. he kept insisting that "its all in the wrist and nothing to do with the arm" like golf.. and then he proceeded to offer me lessons at £20 an hour. lol..i declined his offer. Even more shocking is that he actually coaches a lot of kids from various clubs here. :eek::confused:

so how did he manage to be a badminton england accredited level one coach? surely forearm pronation would be a basic thing he would be tested on before he got his qualification???

[pompey]

Perhaps he could manage "to play a short rally". It seems as if almost anyone with £195 in their back pocket can become a level 1 coach. I don't believe you have to be a top player to be a good coach, but you have to be a decent player. The BAoE should be encouraging players to pass on their knowledge. As long as you can get a CRB check, some insurance and have played at a good level, then do you really need all this to coach beginners? Surely a one day course would suffice?

[blametheshuttle]

Hi Pompey, I have recently attended a level 1 course and yes there are varying standards of players from beginer to county, and from old to young .... however one thing that the instructor said about the level 1 course is that level 1 is to tell you "how to teach" as opposed to "What to teach". Just obtaining the level 1 award is rather useless as you only get taught about 3 strokes that you must reproduce accurately in order to pass the test but it sets you up for the level 2 award which deals with the "what to teach" where I think most if not all strokes are worked in detail.

In any case I understand your worry that someone who can hardly play badminton can obtain a level 1 award but they way I see it is that if they are a good teacher who is able to explain and reproduce the shots (which even the beginners on my course were) and they can find someone who can feed for them. besides most of the beginners from the one I went to wanted to do this because they run badminton at a school and for whatever reason a coach cannot be got to help the kids so they bravely stepped in and tried to make a difference which should in general improve the standard and interest of younger players which is a good thing.

The old coaching award system was even worse, where you pay some small price and turn up for a day, listen for a bit and you have an award, the price was stepped up I believe so only people who are serious bout becoming coaches apply.

It's definately worth going to the level 1 just to learn about the "how to teach" part as I think it's quite well laid out and I am sure out of everyone in the entire course most people are of club standard if not county ... and besides if they are a beginner what better place is there to pratice coaching someone? :p

***These are my personal view and I am not responsible if you went and felt it didnt match what I said because when I went it really was like that***

[ross]

I agree about whats being said here and the first thing that came to my head about this is that a level 1 (assistant coach) is offering his services at £20ph and is coaching regularly in schools. This alarms me. as one, he wont be insured, and two, he wont have the proper knowledge. Why is this happening?
I am a Level 2 coach and do the usual one2ones and after school clubs, answer questions and what not and it concerns me that the unqualified are coaching young people.
As to whats already been said, when i done my level 1, i littlerally turned up listened, and got the qualification, it was at a university and there were sports students there only for the award who knew nothing about badminton, who only wanted another certificate. There is no exam or anything. Forearm pronation and Suprination doesnt come into it until L2. As for the level 2, its a good course, there was a lot to learn and even i learned a lot, i play Prem league/lower county. You pertty much need to be into badminton to get the award, it goes into how the body and muscles work, planning and LATD, had to do a lot of work to pass level 2!!
I agree that you should do the level 1, to learn 'how to teach' and all the basic techniques. I believe what was said that you dont have to be a great player to be a good coach, what ive found is that great players who try to coach, fail, because they are trying to teach to thier own level instead of to the players standard, they often think its easy because they can do it!

[MikeHopley]

The requirements for entry to Level 1 seem abysmally low -

- have some experience of playing the game and can participate in a short rally, or;
- can demonstrate knowledge and understanding of what is required when playing the game and the technicalities required when participating in a short rally.

I'm no Lin Dan, but I've played county level and think I've got a good grasp of the game so I'm not keen on coughing up £195 to go on a course with people "who can play a short rally".

£195 is shockingly expensive. The old Leader's award cost perhaps £30.

Having said that, try not to be a snob about the low entry requirements. Just because you're a good player doesn't mean you can coach for sh*t, and if you want to be a coach you'd better get used to spending time with "people who can play a short rally". :p

After getting the level 1 it's a further £350 for the level 2 to be able to coach independently. It all seems prohibitively expensive to me. If it's independently assessed as stated then surely if you feel you are good enough to go on the course then it should be up to you?I agree, it does seem like a money-spinner. Coach Part 1 (old level 2) was £250 a few years ago. So the cost of qualifying (attending both courses) has risen from about £280 to £545.

The new qualifications are UKCC-accredited, but this doesn't justify a £265 price increase. It's much like the £15 admin fee BE charges us for processing CRB checks. I just don't believe it can cost them that much.

Oh well. Now that BE is being run like a business, you have to expect these things.

[MikeHopley]

I agree about whats being said here and the first thing that came to my head about this is that a level 1 (assistant coach) is offering his services at £20ph and is coaching regularly in schools. This alarms me. as one, he wont be insured, and two, he wont have the proper knowledge. Why is this happening?
I am a Level 2 coach and do the usual one2ones and after school clubs, answer questions and what not and it concerns me that the unqualified are coaching young people.

Well said.

A level 1 should not be charging for his services -- at least not unless he is under the auspices of a level 2, who might employ him as a helper. In any case, a level 1 should not be representing himself as a badminton coach.

Nevertheless rogue level 1's are the least of our problems. What about all those sports teachers who "coach" badminton ("hey, I played tennis once, it's almost the same").

The most alarming part is that many sports teachers are clueless about safety in badminton. At the school where I regularly coach, I see other teachers taking badminton sessions without making the hall safe. They leave equipment just behind courts: benches, clothes, spare shuttles, and even trampolines (!).

[pompey]

My gripe with the Level 1 is that with the stated entry level being so low there is absolutely no chance of a player "who can play a short rally" getting anywhere near the understanding of someone who plays county level within the period of the course (ignoring playing ability). Even the most naturally talented of players will have given some thought to technique/tactics etc. To some extent you have to be able to do it yourself - a lot of people learn by imitation and if you can't play for toffee then beginners will pick up bad habits from you. The BAoE should be trying to get out as many coaches as possible to raise the standards of the supposedly millions of recreational players and charging £550 is not the way to do it. I'm keen to pass on my knowledge, but at that price I can join a golf club and I think I'll choose that instead.

[TheChosenOneReturns!]

I hear you brother !!

Fancy a round ?

[MikeHopley]

My gripe with the Level 1 is that with the stated entry level being so low there is absolutely no chance of a player "who can play a short rally" getting anywhere near the understanding of someone who plays county level within the period of the course.

But it's not just about how well you understand the theory of badminton. It's also about how well you can teach it.

Nevertheless, £545 seems far too expensive to me. They should be able to offer it for much less.

[myself]

lol.. i have been looking for a coach myself for a while now.. believe it or not i met a "level one" coach in our local club who has been playing for years and years apparently. seemed like a very arrogant but confident chap. What surprised me most was that he didnt know what pronation and supination of the forearm was when i asked him about the correct way to do it. he kept insisting that "its all in the wrist and nothing to do with the arm" like golf.. and then he proceeded to offer me lessons at £20 an hour. lol..i declined his offer. Even more shocking is that he actually coaches a lot of kids from various clubs here. :eek::confused:

so how did he manage to be a badminton england accredited level one coach? surely forearm pronation would be a basic thing he would be tested on before he got his qualification???

I myself believe that it's entirely the mistake of the one who issues licencse!:mad:

when we look at grading in a general sense, sometimes it is grade 1 that is better than grade 2 or 3 and vice versa. hence, if a guys tells me that he has L1 coaching licesnse of something, i really don't know what his standard.

how would one expects the general consumer (especially kids or kid's parents) know what a L1 coach is???

i think it's high time the BE changed the names of the license so that no one will be confused

[MikeHopley]

i think it's high time the BE changed the names of the license so that no one will be confused

They already have!

The current courses are part of UKCC (http://www.ukcoachingcertificate.org/) -- the UK coaching certificate. These define a standard for sports coaching: a level 1 UKCC qualification is equivalent across all sports.

The names (level 1, level 2...) are part of the standard too.

[Alex85]

Sounds like the L1 is a waste of time then. I am a level 2 but I did my coaching qualification a good few years ago when the system was different. When they changed the system they 'rebanded' the existing coaches and for whatever reason i ended up a level 2.

I don't do it much anymore as I have too many other commitments (badminton standard has also gone down the pan!) but used to coach for the Local Authority and did one-to-one's with a few kids.

[David Swifty]

Im a big cheese in badminton an learnin to coach. Im not much good yet and some people laugh at me but I wiIl get there. In my area of kent Im feared.

[MikeHopley]

Im a big cheese in badminton an learnin to coach. Im not much good yet and some people laugh at me but I wiIl get there. In my area of kent Im feared.

Careful.

Arrogance is not a quality that the assessors prize. ;) A little humility is valuable when you're learning to be a coach.

[Mee]

A couple of years ago I used to help out at a club which had a junior session for an hour before the club night. It was really good and we had about 10 enthusiatic youngsters all wanting to play and keen to learn.

We got help with funding from BAofE and started with a coach (outside of the club). None of us could afford the coaching badge but our aim was only to introduce youngsters to the game. If they wanted real coaching we would give them names of real coaches in the area. The coach who helped us had to drop out due to personal reasons and then the BAofE realised we had no coaching badges. They withdrew funding, the kids club collapsed and only one of them plays badminton anymore. (He was good enough to join the club nights).

What a waste of young players. This sport needs young people to be interested in the sport. There is far too much focus on producing county juniors and having all the right qualifications.

There should be more focus on providing kids clubs where kids can go and have fun and learn the rules. If they want real coaching let them know where to find it but not everyone wants proper coaching. We need to generate numbers in the sport. Numbers automatically generate top players. Its no good trying to build from the top it's got to be from the bottom.

Moan over.

[MikeHopley]

That's a depressing story. :(

I don't know why BE chose to withdraw funding in that case, but an obvious possible reason would be liability. If they fund groups with no qualified coach, then they may be liable for any injuries that occur.

For this reason, I would like to see a minimum-investment training option: a basic "how to play badminton safely" course, that took just a couple of hours and cost next to nothing. That way, at least BE could provide funding to such groups without worrying about liability.

And if you think I'm being prissy about safety, think again. I've observed many teachers -- even sports teachers -- fail to protect kids against the most obvious of dangers in badminton. Why? They just don't understand the risks. Sport-specific safety training is important.

[Mee]

It is a sad story and its definately an area where BAofE can improve things.

Its not all sad though and there are some very positive things happening in Kent at the moment. For the last 8 years I've been one of the youngest people in the league, I'm now 30 and my partners and fellow club members are all between 30-60 (more at the top end). That is definatley a bad situation but in the last 2-3years there has been a sudden influx of youngsters into the league (Tunbridge Wells League). I now play against a lot of county juniors in the league and I'm starting to believe there may be a future for the league.

However, coming back to my original point, most of these juniors are county players. Theres obviously some very good coaches out there doing this but where's the rest of the juniors? Where are the juniors that aren't county standard, these are the club members we need more than county players but they seem to fall through the cracks in the system.

The BAofE (or perhaps the credit should go to the individual clubs) are doing something right with these new players but they need to simplify the standard and expand the idea to bring numbers into the game. After all, if we don't bring players in at all levels, there wont be any leagues to play in which is a real shame as I love playing the game.