The big one..........RACKET PRICES

[Phil McBride]

Dear members, it's now time for the question to be asked. With so many of us (in fact all) using rackets, what is the typical price of a selection of rackets.

I will use three examples:

(i) Muscle Power 100 (RRP £150) good for singles
(ii) Muscle Power 88 (RRP £120) good for either
(iii) Muscle Power 77 (RRP £80)good for doubles

And before you think that I hate carlton, I use either an 85g or AS1. The reason that I have chosen these Yonex rackets is that they are the most populat rackets and used by many more players, therefore should be more available in a larger selection of shops.

What prices do you pay for your rackets?

Oh and before I forget, only post the location of the retailer (City and area) and prices of the applicable racket and not the name of the shop or the person that runs it. Just to be fair to Badders.com

[zephyr]

hey buy muscle power 100. it dpends on your skill though. Theres not much difference in single and doubles performance. Dun get fooled by that. 150 $ is cheap. i guess. i bought mine for 240 $ okay? But it was Japan series. so worth it. And for strings use Bg 65. gret performance. tell me when you get your racket! c ya soon

[Grover]

I guess the biggest question is - to buy from a local shop, mail order or on the internet.

it seems that the future is the internet as the prices are very competitive, service good and choice better than local badminton stores.

As for the rackets you mentioned - the MP 100 is £109 on the internet and the MP88 is £96. Much cheaper than the high street.

[zephyr]

can u trust online services? i cant always. besides u can see the actualy racket b4 u buy it. so if ure patient. look around online and shops. i know a dozen websites that can sell you one, but forgot the URl...stupid me..

[zephyr]

to tell u the truth.. the best racket is mazuda ti power 8000 really strong..better than yonex rackets. check it out!

[Grover]

I trust online services 100%, however, I only buy from trusted brands and sites. Amazon being the obvious one. Never had a problem buying badminton equipment online. Quick, honest, good value service certainly with those based in the UK.

[george]

I feel that Yonex and Carlton racket prices are over inflated. What does anyone else feel?

How can a racket be worth £150!

There are many manufacturers out there such as Talbot/Torro, Slazenger, Prince, Browning, Karakal, Wilson, Monsoon, Electre, Fleet, Karakal, Pro Kennex etc.. the list is almost endless. These all offer very similar technologies and some I think are better than these over priced market leaders. Personally I use Talbot/Torro Iso Power 3000Ti Long and find it the best I have ever used. I have tried MP100, MP99, MP 88, MP77, ASTI, AS1 Megaflex F1 and many others from other makes. And when I say market leaders, I mean only in the area of the volume of their rackets out there.

It is their marketing ploy to inflate their prices and make the public think, oh! these must be the best and of course everyone wants the best.

Another marketing strategy which has worked to huge success esp. in Asia in the case of Yonex is to pay all the worlds' top players to use your racket and then everyone will think these rackets are the best and rush out to buy them. It must be disappointing for Yonex who have got to be the largest seller of rackets worldwide by far that very little badders gets on telly here in UK. However in UK, people still identify with their brand as a market leader.

I know from personal experience that in Asia Yonex are so dominant they are almost a monopoly and that cannott be good for the public. I have a friend who visited Hong Kong about 6 years ago and tried to buy the top Prince racket out there. He came back and said he could not even find a shop that sold that brand! In fact he said apart from Yonex and Pro Kennex it was difficult to find any others-even Carlton!

Witness at the All England that no other brand but Yonex can be sold. I know that they are the sponsors and without them the BA of E may struggle to find another sponsor, but surely that cannott be good. They know that they would lose some sales if the other manufacturers could sell simply because of much cheaper prices. This smacks of monopolisation and the BA of E should not allow it but are too frightened to lose them as sponsors.

I would urge people to try out other brands on a trial basis and compare performance before laying out hard earned dosh. Esp. the Talbot/Torro top of ranges. It would certainly reduce sales of the "market leaders" and make them re-think their prices which can only be good for the public at large.

[zephyr]

i think its kind of up to you. duh of course. but if i were you i would buy yonex 100 mp! with bg 65! i used it b4. gives you control and power. both. I didnt know UK didnt have alot of yonex rackets out there. well here i am on this exotic country with some of the top badminton players. almost all use yonex so ya. get yonex mp 100. not because its popular but its performance is excellente!

[Grover]

Ken, why do you think Yonex are so good? They are made in the same factory as other manufacturers and then painted differently. They then charge the poor fan loads of money to recoup all the money they give to top players for using them.

[Michael Banks]

Just had the BAE trying to sell me stand space at the ALL England. As George alluded to before, Yonex have a monopoly on all sales.

In the advertisers pack, this was highlighted IN BOLD!

Retailing

The sale of goods to the public, and the taking of orders fro future delivery, are not permitted under any circumstances from company display stands. It is also not possible to give out sales order forms to the public. However it may be possible for companies whose business does not conflict with the title sponsor's to sell their products.

The quality of stands at all the All England have been a disgrace in the last few years. This exclusive deal with Yonex is sending badminton down the river. I remember the days of going along and buying some of the latest kit. It was all part of the trip.

I don't take too kindly to the BAE and Central Sports telling me I have to buy Yonex. ok, I can go elsewhere, but for the good of badminton the deal stinks.

[Alex]

One bit of advice... buy INFLIGHT

[zephyr]

u know y i like yonex? because they are good. duh. ive tried other rackets and there is a big difference in power and control and feel. ACtually i didnt say yonex is the best. Mazuda is. Its much powerful and controlablle than yonex. i dunno about carlton. never used it. Grover, do u use msn? i awnt to talk to you about badminton online. c ya

[Grover]

Used to use Yonex but now find I get exactly the same feel from the likes of Ashaway, Talbot, Carlton, and I can buy two rackets for the price of a single Yonex.

[Pglews]

A lot of the deal with prices is people's perception of them in terms of quality. Nike is a popular brand, because it is worn by the right people and costs a lot.
Its the same reason that designer makes exist, some people like to buy designer clothes, because of the image it gives off. Wearing the right clothes is like playing with the right racquet. You can get similar quality cheaper, but its the perception that counts. It all comes down to marketing.
As I've said before (in another similar discussion), I'm in the process of a marketing dissertation, although most of the work (as opposed to preliminary research) will probably take place after Christmas, but I'll keep it in mind to post some of my findings if it interests anyone!!

[Grover]

Please post away Pete. interesting area that merits discussion, it does come down to marketing but not necessarily advertising or branding. importantly Yonex flood the market with strong distribution which means that Yonex goods are accessable in every shop.

[zephyr]

there are so many rackets. if ure a amatur then dun give about buying racktes. just buy any u can use, if ure advanced player then u mite want to pick up your racket that fits you. If all the badminton rackets were nearly the same then everyone is stupid

[Grover]

No matter what standard you are it is important to get the right racket. The more advanced you are the more you will benefit from a racket that suits your style and ability. Interesting point you make at the end Ken. I wouldn't call people stupid as everyone has the right to make a choice. What I would say is that the price and brand of a racket has no real bearing on how it plays. Yes, there are better rackets than others, but many are very simialr with large differences in pricing.

Most people would rather have a branded racket than an unbranded one even if they have to pay more for it. They are paying for the name of the racket and the status it gives them not how it plays.

[Phil McBride]

I agree with Ken, when people start to play badminton their racket is often a gift, or one that their parents have bought for their children offering little choice because it is probably bought in a high street shop or worse a mail order catalog.

Having spent the last year or so looking for a racket to replace my carlton 85g (I'm scared to use it in case it snaps)its amazing what different rackets can do and feel like.

Ken makes a very valid point, you have to wait until you have a good grasp of the game and know how to play shots before you can choose a racket that suits your game and will enhance your playing.

The thing that bothers me the most is when one of my coaching group comes up to me and asks what is the best racket. It's quite difficult to make them realise that the reason that there are so many choices availabe is because everyone is different and you have to find the racket that suits YOU. Even changing the string or the tension of the sting will change your game slightly, the tendancy today is to go for the most expensive racket because it has to be the best, that's why it's so expensive, no?

[jg]

The only problem with the comments in the last couple of posts is that without Yonex putting huge amounts of spomsorship into the Al England, then the event would really struggle.

A few years ago Yonex threatened to withdraw their support .....the BAoE had tried like the devil to find sponsors to take their place.....and could not find anybody that could provide similar funds.

However i do agree that perhaps the event might be better if other companies were allowed to sell there products

[Grover]

It is a downward spiral John. Yonex have made a mockery of the All England, ok they will sponsor it and keep it alive but at what cost? Badminton in the UK suffers. If yonex decided to leave badminton there wouldn't be anyone to take their place. Seems like short term gain but long term loss to me.

Monopoly anyone?

[jg]

T the risk of diverting this thread from is original course, I am puzzled by Grovers comment that 'Yonex have made a mockery of the All England'......how

Seems to me that all the top players still want to plat there, probably due to the ranking points and prize money that can be gained....both of which are at least partly due to the financial imput of Yonex.

True to can only buy Yonex equipment at the event.... which I think is disappointing..but hardly the end of the world

[Michael Banks]

Does anyone have any inside info on sales? I hear that the tickets aren't going too well because the interest is being split between the All England and the World Championships.

[stringerengland]

Guys, you are all forgetting that is is the quality of the strings and selection of the right tension for your game which counts. The shuttle is hit with the strings. The majority of you have all fallen into the marketing hype. Dig into your pockets and pay for a restring in top quality gut. Your game will be transformed. Most people are not prepared to pay for top quality strings. Before you attack me and say restrings prices for badminton are steep. Remember next time that it takes much longer to string a badminton racquet than a squash or tennis racquet. The strings are much finer and much greater care has to be exercised to avoid breakage during stringing. Something for all you badminton players to think about. Really for the work involved us stringers should charge players more for our work.

[Phil McBride]

I agree keith, after trying nearly every string at my local re-stringers, I have switched to gut and would not go back to using any other string.

There are some problems though: at the begining my stringer did not have a stock and i needed to wait until it was ordered. Now he has a set put aside with my name on it. The biggest problem when first using gut is that it gives you better clears with little effort, until you get your timing back the string tends to wear out quickly and will loose tension causing you to need a re-string, and, at £20 a time its quite expensive especially if you need several rackets done and regularly.

However I think it's worth it.

[Phil McBride]

SORRY TO REVIVE THIS OLD CHESTNUT, BUT.....

I have noticed that the new Yonex range (armortec) have dramatically dropped in price. If we use the 700 as an example the MRP is £150. Many retailers started at around £135-140, but now the price has crashed to £110.

This racket has only been around for a few months so why the depreciation so early on in it's life? If I had just stumped up £135 to see it at £110 a few days later I would be well pissed.

Anyone any ideas?

[Tito]

Possibly because people are fed up with a new range every 6 months or so and there is very little if any difference between the old and new. I think the Isometric shape has worked well for Yonex as it's prone to breaking more than the Carbonex series.

[WarrenTsoi]

I agree that the costs for the new "high tech" racquets have gotten out of hand. Unless you travel to Asia or have friends who visit from the far east, the prices are vastly inflated. I do play Yonex (the old Carbonex series) and have been amazed at the rising costs of the Isometric, Ti, MP etc ranges that have been marketed to us over the past few years promising us more power and fewer "off centre hits".

Although technology has improved a little, I suspect that very few of us will experience significant increases in the level of our play solely through buying the newest racquet as used by Chen Hong, Nathan Robertson etc.

However to justify higher prices, new models have to be released with the latest high tech advance-this is classic marketing. Early adopters (the enthusiasts) are less concerned about the price and are willing to pay more for the latest and greatest. The mainstream (where the majority of sales are made) come in as the prices drop to where they feel value for money and perceived performance gains match up. Then there are the bargains or high end models when the next latest innovation is released and so the cycle goes on.

As long as we continue to buy them they will keep bringing them out.

As somone who has an interest in marketing and branding I am impressed with Yonex's treatment the various ranges of racquets which are meant to correspond to your ability level (advanced/itermediate etc) and style of play (aggressive/defensive/singles/doubles). This encourages players to buy increasingly expensive racquets as they feel that they are getting better.

At the end of the day though, I suspect that more experienced (better?) players will tend to stick to their tried and trusted racquet rather than spend hundreds on the latest offering from Yonex, Carlton etc.

[Tito]

The claim that the rackets can do for you falls short of them playing the game for you or the ability to make tea! All I know is Xia Xuanze the world champ plays the old Carbonex 20 and the runner-up Wong Choon Hann uses the Carbonex 21. At the end of the day if a racket feels good you should have no reason to buy the latest unless you wanted a change.

[johng]

This is a subject that has interested me for ages..

A new racket is produce, promising massive improvements in smash power, touch and flex recovery...and people rush out to buy......however..offer them a few hours coaching, often at a fraction of the cost, and nobody is interested

It would be interesting to take a group of players of mixed standard, provide them with a range of rackets, strung to the same tension and with the same strings..but with ALL trade and colour markings removed....and then ask which one they liked best

Perhaps two of the same model could be included..just to see how they compare..

Clearly the players would not be allowed to 'examine' the rackets too closely..simply given them and told to play

Perhaps I am being cynical...but I would not mind betting that in most cases, very few would be able to 'name' their chosen favourite..or even be able to tell the two similar rackets

[juniorbadmintonplayer]

what is the cost of yonex rackets in asia then?Also how much is it for a tube of feathers in somewhere like hong kong, as my friends sister occasionally goes there...rishi

[cdaniels]

My friend bought the new Yonex Armortec 700 at the CS stand at the world championships for the special discounted price of £135 even though it was on offer on their website at the same price only to find a couple of weeks later it costs £110.

Also I don't think the marketing team at Yonex, after coming up with the impressive name Armortec, would be too impressed to know she calls her racket "Poppy"

[stringerengland]

Hi Everyone,


When you buy a Yonex racquet, I would agree you are buying a top quality racquet, but you must remember that you are paying for the brand name. From my understanding, Yonex probably sponsor most of the top badminton players in the world. Where do you think this money comes from to sponsor the players. Yes, you've got it, it comes from you and I


Regards

Keith England

[flamingjam]

I use Mp99s they cost about £80-90 each i don't usually spend any more £150's way to much

[robinhood]

I brought in some MP100s into this country to use and also to sell. I thought i was doing a favour by selling them at £85 in Ebay. But it was quite difficult to sell off. maybe it is the lack of trust people have in Ebay sellers, particularly over high end rackets.

[Phil McBride]

No one really trusts sellers on e-bay but it's also the lack of being able to return it if anything is wrong.

Were they 2U or 3U?

Remember the MP100's issued for the UK were all 2U so most people would be using them not the 3U version.

[robinhood]

I have got 2U and 3U

[redkingjoe]

SORRY TO REVIVE THIS OLD CHESTNUT, BUT.....

I have noticed that the new Yonex range (armortec) have dramatically dropped in price. If we use the 700 as an example the MRP is £150. Many retailers started at around £135-140, but now the price has crashed to £110.

This racket has only been around for a few months so why the depreciation so early on in it's life? If I had just stumped up £135 to see it at £110 a few days later I would be well pissed.

Anyone any ideas?

Dear Phil,
You should be very very happy with the depreciation in price. I visited Japan last month:

YY's MP100, MP99, AT800, AT700 etc had always been fixed at around Yen 22,000. The Japanese buyers in Japan will not enjoy any depreciation at all. Some specialist shop will give a discount of 20% over the suggested retail price across the full range be it new or old models.

So, enjoy the price cut.

[Phil McBride]

Not if I went out and bought 6 at full price :mad:

[redkingjoe]

Sorry to know that you got the rip off!!! In Hong Kong, we are very used to the devaluation of Yonex's price. All the new models decrease a few % everyweek!! We will wait untill the racket fall to an acceptable level of price to buy BUT after you bought the price would become more affordable!!

Since you have 6 AT700(uk), I believe it's worth spending on a CP or JP to compare.

Not if I went out and bought 6 at full price :mad:

[Phil McBride]

I was going to import a classic in the Cab 20 CN/CP but was put off by the high price when the racket is so cheap in Asia becasue it is so available.

I'm still toying with getting an AT700 and possibly some slim10's.

[redkingjoe]

I was going to import a classic in the Cab 20 CN/CP but was put off by the high price when the racket is so cheap in Asia becasue it is so available.

I'm still toying with getting an AT700 and possibly some slim10's.

AT700 is an excellent racket. One seller(I know him very well) in HK told me that the German "GR" version is as good as JP version. Although JP verion might not be as good as the CP, JP is superior to most other version of YY Racket. (The Japan culture is: keep the best for their own people)

The coach who sold me the AT800OFcp has a AT800OF jp too. The general comment on CP or JP he gave was CP/JP give him a "solid" feelings when hitting the bird. The SP verion can't give this feeling.

If I were in UK and wanted to toy with rackets, I would try to get one GR version, be it AT700 or CAB from Germany and try out.

[Phil McBride]

Germany only have the same Cab's as the rest of Europe, you need to go to Asia to find the full range of rackets, HK is the best place to be since you can get almost anything if you know where to go but you do pay a premium for it, having a place like HK is good in the respect you can find any racket new or old to play with so you don't really have to wory about Yonex discontinuing anything.

And theoretically all Yonex rackets are the same, they are just fitted with distribution area/country designation cones after painting. So there should be no difference between any of the country rackets although SP (Singapore) somehow is always regarded as complete crap :confused:

[redkingjoe]

Dear Phil,
There has been a lot of discussions and debates on the codes in Asia.

1 Finally, I found out that my son's coach,as a YY sponsered player, has been using CN/CP/SP codes extensively. It's a reality that quality are diff for CP vs SP.

2 Geneally, CP(across most models) are a bit heavier, stronger frame, and more powerful. The hitting feelings are more solid.

3 We bought the AT800OF CP from the coach but we don't want to buy a SP to compare. Nevertheless, we are promised to be sold one or two AT700cp onced available. Since we have the AT700sp, we will compare ourselves rather than only trusting the coach or what the other says.

4 The current price of AT700cp in China is only GBP130-140. If our coach can't get it, we will go to China to get it since my son likes AT700(a bit more powerful) more than AT800OF. The street price of AT700cp in HK is around GBP 200 while AT700GR(with free string) is only GBP 80.

Germany only have the same Cab's as the rest of Europe, you need to go to Asia to find the full range of rackets, HK is the best place to be since you can get almost anything if you know where to go but you do pay a premium for it, having a place like HK is good in the respect you can find any racket new or old to play with so you don't really have to wory about Yonex discontinuing anything.

And theoretically all Yonex rackets are the same, they are just fitted with distribution area/country designation cones after painting. So there should be no difference between any of the country rackets although SP (Singapore) somehow is always regarded as complete crap :confused:

[JKL]

I used to pay a lot of attention to rackets when I was a young player, I used to love having the best racket to play with and trying out different rackets etc. However, over the past few years, I find that it's not really important anymore, I can play just as well with £40-£50 rackets. I do agree, however, with some people, having a top end racket may boost their confidence on court knowing that they are playing with the best equipment. Since Yonex rackets are so expensive now, I stopped using them a long time ago and I now train with £20 rackets. I then play games and matches with more expensive rackets because I know if I can play well with cheap rackets, I can play even better with a better racket.

I woud pay more attention to trainers since speed and footwork is a very important part of the game.

[Phil McBride]

After spending 2 years trying to find the right racket and trying most of the ones available, I decided on the one I feel most comfortable playing with, the same with trainers. If I find a pair I like I buy a few pairs because they only last about 4-6 months and are pulled out of the shops at the end of the season.

Unles they are hi tec squash :D

[redkingjoe]

Dear Phil and Joe,

Thank you for the professional advises.

My son actually doesn't care a lot about the model of the rackets. He just said the AT series are having superior feels when playing and the CP code is having even better feels. When he plays or trains, he just takes out any one randomly from Ti-swing, Ti-10, AT700, AT800 or Gosen. He also said the margin of diff was not much. Only when he plays serious games does he picks the AT.

As beginner, just want to test out the best combination of racket, string and tension.

[Phil McBride]

I hate to say this but there should be a big margin of difference in those rackets that you have mentioned as they are all specifically different in their intentions.

What flex is the TiSP? I would think it should be more in the middle of the range but you never know.

[redkingjoe]

I hate to say this but there should be a big margin of difference in those rackets that you have mentioned as they are all specifically different in their intentions.

What flex is the TiSP? I would think it should be more in the middle of the range but you never know.

Yes, those rackets have big margin of diff.

1 The firsts we bought were Ti-5 and Ti7. After a few months, both broken in accident. We were advise to buy a cheaper but better Gosen(model???). The Gosen is good and much better than Ti5 and 7.

2 Then we bought one Ti-Swing SX. Immediately, my son found it is far superior to Gosen. So we bought a second Ti-SX to compare all the diff tension and string. We had tried out the otherTi-swing models but didn't like them.

3 Suddenly the AT700 came out and droped price by 40% in 4 months time so I bought it to try. My son didn't like the AT700 initially when compared to Ti-SX. It took him almost 2 months of trying to find out that AT700 was actually better than Ti-SX.

4 Than we also try the AT800OF.

5 My son is now quite mature on diff rackets, diff strings and diff tension. Just pick up any racket and try to adapt to it for training and leisure competition.

6 Phil is right and insightful:no matter how much you like a single model, it will be not be sold anymore in a few years time.

[Phil McBride]

Have you tried the Nonospeed 7000 yet?

Demos are surfacing and I would think your sons coach might be able to lay his hands on one.

Scheduled release is November in Japan.

[redkingjoe]

Have you tried the Nonospeed 7000 yet?

Demos are surfacing and I would think your sons coach might be able to lay his hands on one.

Scheduled release is November in Japan.

The coach is keeping his eyes on the Nanospeed. Once available, he will sell one to us but it would be a CP code. Nevertheless, he had tried a Nano racket which is made in Taiwan. He doesn't like the head light and overall frame light design.

We are very used to the "devaluation in Price". Everytime we bought a YY racket, it was at least 30%-50% discount of the original high price. Thus, we seldom test new models on release.

If you've got a chance, please share your experience on testing the Nanospeed.

Normally, after introducing a new series, YY will wait untill everyone get hold of at least one before selling a new model. One of the reasons that Nanospeed 7000 came out so quickly right after the release of Armortec is because other Japan Racket maker had introduced Nano racket in Japan and have huge success.

[Phil McBride]

The Nano will be made in Japan!

Only a couple of lower end Muscle Powers are made outside Japan and Yonex make all their higher end rackets there, the nano is a higher end racket (judging by the price) so it too will be made in Japan.

I've still heard nothing about the release in the UK and am hapy with my AT700's, I haven't even tried out the AT800's yet :(

[redkingjoe]

Dear Phil,

1 Don't even need to think about the AT800 if you have AT700 unless you want to spend money. AT700 is one of the very best.

2 Nano7000 has almost the same Yen price as AT700. So I believe the release price in HK will be around GBP110-120. After a while, it should be around GBP70-80.

3 I heard that the Nano7000 is head light design(weight distribution = MP88) so if you like AT700, you might not like Nano7000. I guess they will produce a headheavy later.

4 If you want to buy more than 1 Nano7000, try to get a GR code. I also heard from an owner(I know him quite well) who sells a lot of rackets daily that GR racket is a bit better(say 5%)than the rest SP.

5 All high end rackets made in Japan, but the distribution code will determine the QC of the rackets with TH the worst and JP the best. Racket production is a mass thing. YY select the best for the domestic market just like when you get two JVC CD Players, both made in Japan. Open the the inside of the Players, you can see the Domestic Japan model use higher grade capacitors.




The Nano will be made in Japan!

Only a couple of lower end Muscle Powers are made outside Japan and Yonex make all their higher end rackets there, the nano is a higher end racket (judging by the price) so it too will be made in Japan.

I've still heard nothing about the release in the UK and am hapy with my AT700's, I haven't even tried out the AT800's yet :(