Service Rules

[Moosey]

Does anyone know where I can find the official rules for the height of the racket head during service, and the suggested course of action when someone calls your serve?

[Michael Banks]

Ian, serving rules can be found at http://www.intbadfed.org/laws.html

It has an interesting diagram as well. Is it just me or is the law surrounding the -server's waist- and -discernibly below the whole of the server's hand- a bit hazzy?

Looking at the diagram I would say that 9 out 10 people I know serve illegally and that is all the way up to county level.

[ALBrowne2]

OK, I'm being fussy, but the game is governed by laws, not rules. The comment about illegal serving is valid, and much of this is down to either ignorance, or worse still, players knowing the laws and getting away with flouting them. Have a look at "Where are the Umpires" thread - the more people who become Umpires, the greater the chance of reducing illegal serving. As regards the first posting, the wording may seem hazy, but Umpires/Service Judges are given guidance during training on what to look for.

[Michael Banks]

Tony, 999 out of every 1000 games of badminton have no officials present. And yes, you are being fussy by saying laws!

You are right about the ignorance though. Most players don't serve illegally so they can get an advantage they just don't realise they are serving incorrectly.

[NeilNicholls]

Regarding the waist, my dictionary defines the waist as "the constricted part of the trunk between the ribs and hips"

Law 9.1.5 states "the whole shuttle shall be below the server's waist at the instant of being hit by the server's racket"

as the Law does not say "the whole of the waist" I read that to mean that the whole of the shuttle must be below the highest part of the waist, which appears to be where the ribs join the sternum.

That's how I read it. I could be wrong.

[Grover]

Question is. When someone has a baggy t-shirt and they are leaning forward, how can you begin to tell where the ribs are, the waistline and where they are when contact is made? Even with a service judge it is very difficult.

If someone calls your serve foul you have two options. If you think it is legal, then tell them to get an official to have a look at it and you will take whatever advice the official suggests. If you think it is borderline then change your style so that there is no mistaking it next time.

[Phil McBride]

There was a little issue that some of the coaches were discussing during one of our sessions, the "waist" with reference to badminton is generally accepted as the lowest rib, not your actual waistline as people believe. Therefore this difference of what can sometimes be a couple of inches or more makes some services appear illegal.

Can anyone comment on this defenition of "waist" being correct because it does not say anything to this effect in the LAWS.

[danbelcher]

I also believe that an imaginary line level with the lowest rib is considered the waist but also cannot find it in the rules. Have heard from an umpire that the inner elbow joint is in line with that, which can be used for calling service faults. I am annoyed when people quote rules incorrectly, rules which they have picked up on clubnights. For example, someone told me that my serve was a fault because my racquet head was above the waist. Aaaghhh!!!!!

[Michael Banks]

This is all about interpretation with people of all shapes and sizes playing, who is an expert on waist and this illusive bottom rib. Can an umpire let us into the secret of this rib thing and how they assess where it is, if it fact it does exist as there is nothing in the laws to suggest there is.

[coops241180]

i'm so glad i don't backhand serve. it seems to be very good if you can do it legally but no end of problems if you can't. i was at the BUSA individuals last weekend where the BAofE trained there new umpires. i know a few of the umpires in the BAofE personally and the only way they can decide is to effectively draw an imaginary line (based on past experience) where they think the players waist is and judge it by that. I think umpires get quite a hard time and that we should simply respect their judgement. does anybody ever have trouble with the other law tho? at least 50% of the people at university level serve illegaly because there racquets are almost horizontal. Unfortunately without a qualified and unbiased service judge we are not allowed to call this as it is viewed as unsportsmanlike conduct. What is this world coming to!!

[Michael Banks]

Illegal serving is rife in the game and I wouldn't knock backhand serving as most people get an advantage by serving it illegally. As you say Neil, without having officials at an event or match there is no way it can be policed. It has got worse and worse since people have turned to a backhand serve and they have no concept of what they are doing. To them it probably seems legal driving the shuttle towards your face with their racket at head height.

[coops241180]

do you think i could get away with serving overarm then? think this is the only way i can get a similar advantage

:oD

Neil

[Michael Banks]

Why not, most people seem to do it these days. Soon everyone will be throwing the shuttle up in the air and serving like in tennis - with top spin ;-)

[Phil McBride]

This doubt about the rib thing was quite evident at the recent tournament in Scotland where one of the English girls went up top the service judge, lifted her top up and pointed to her ribs and motioned a line across. She was clearly upset that the service judge dared to question her serving.

Also the main advantage of the illegal backhand serve is two fold, people lifting up onto their tip toes in turn driving the service at people, sometimes it feels that the serve comes down at you.

[Kal]

The problems seems to be originating from the coaching departments.
When returning to the sport last year after some years away I was interested to find out that the new breed of coaches had been told to teach youngsters backhand serving only. Many kids appeared to be struggling with this ideal, through lack of strength, when attempting any kind of variation of serve other than a 'pop' over the net. Consequently there is now an epidemic of foul serving being condoned within the junior ranks presumably to make the coaching manual look correct.

[Derek]

Lovely to hear that you have come back to the game, Kath. Keep serving legally! Some of us have never learned any other way!

[ALBrowne2]

To Michael and others - the law states " the whole shuttle shall be below the server's waist at the instant of being hit by the server's racket". One point which is often overlooked is the reference to the "whole shuttle". As Umpires and Service Judges, we are given guidelines for the waist which state that "the entire shuttle must be below an imaginary line round the body level with the lowest part of the server's bottom rib". Not exactly black and white, but we do gain experience in judging this level, even when players are wearing those baggy t-shirts!

[NeilNicholls]

Thanks for that Tony,

I think that the guidance you say umpires are given is black and white. What the laws of the game say are not.

to say "the entire shuttle must be below an imaginary line round the body level with the lowest part of the server's bottom rib" puts a maximum height of the shuttle for service for each individual. Still not easy for service judges to know where it is though.

The lowest part of my bottom rib appears to be at the side of my body and not much higher than my hips. Which would mean that I have been serving illegally ever since a coach told me that it was legal to serve from higher than there.
No one has ever said it has been an illegal serve though - but I guess that's because nobody knows what is and isn't

[ALBrowne2]

Neil, have you ever been service-judged? If not, contact a local umpire who I am sure might respond to an invite from your club to come to a club night.

[Grover]

Good point Neil, the laws are very open to misuse. When you have an expert official to hand it seems that there are some good guidelines which an official can judge the serve. Why can't these guidelines be written into the laws in some capacity? maybe then people would take notice of serving legally.

[NeilNicholls]

Nope, never been service judged.
I'll pester our club secretary to get in touch with someone.

In the league games I've played in, if people are serving illegally they don't seem to be doing it to gain a big advantage.

e.g. several weeks ago, we had a match. Our team captain was scoring our game. After the first game, which we won, he said to me and my partner that he thought our opposition were serving illegally high and did he want him to point it out. My partner and I thought we were going to win either way so we said not to say anything. The serves were not causing us any trouble and we were happy to keep receiving them. It would have been a different matter if the serves were being driven at our heads to try to win a point immediately.
We won in the end, but I don't know what would have happened if we had called their serves. There were no independant people available to adjudicate so it might have ended up in a big shouting match - who can tell.

[ALBrowne2]

Neil, I've just checked Umpires' details for Wolverhampton, and was surprised to see it is an Umpiring desert! Obviously a wealth of talent just waiting to be tapped!! Get your Club secretary to write to Mrs M Greig, 6 Courtlands Close, Edgbaston Birmingham B5 7XA. Not only is Maureen the local Umpires Regional Secretary, she is also the Secretary of the National Training Sub-committee, so she will be able to help.

[MarkAllen]

First let me say that I fully support everything Tony Browne hsa posted here. He & I are umpiring neighbours, as it were, so we're both coming at this from a similar standpoint. What I can't understand though, both here & in other threads I've followed, is the widespread habit of playing this game of ours without understanding the rules. Would you play football without knowing about offside? If you don't know what makes a foul serve you open yourself up to all sorts of problems. I know it's difficult to accuse someone of foul serving, but it's almost a taboo subject in most places. You should know where the limits are, so you can approach them, but you really shouldn't be surprised if overstepping them generates complaints. The laws of the game are sent to clubs regularly; and are also available on various websites. They're written in very plain English which has been amended over the years to make their comprehension easy even for those who have English as a second language. Whilst the waist interpretation is not written down, it's well enough known. In any event I'd say it's up to you, the individual player, to check your service against the laws and your own conscience. Try looking in a mirror if you have any doubts.

[gregr999]

The focus of this thread has dwelled on the exact location/definition of the waist. However, it appears to me that the greater problem is the position of the racket head with respect to the racket hand. The rules/laws state that the racket must be pointing in a downward direction to such an extent that the racket head is DISCERNABLY below the (racket) hand at the instant of contact.

I've seem more (non-novice) servers gaining advantage from violating this part of the law rather than contact above the waist. More than 98% of all drive serves that I've witnessed should be deemed illegal for violating the law concerning the relative postions of the racket head & hand. These illegal drive serves are of both the FH & BH varieties. I don't think that BH serves should be singled out as inherently troublesome in this regard.

It is obvious from the wording of the servive laws, however vague it may seem, that the intent of is to prevent the serve from being an offensive shot (as it is in tennis). I believe that this idea should be strongly conveyed to all badminton players; umpires should be religious about enforcing this aspect of the service laws.

Let's forget about trying to burn opponents with a questionable drive serve. Instead, work on variety & deception in your service motion, employing an occasional well-executed flick rather than a dubious drive serve.

[Grover]

Played in a game last night where 5 out of 6 people on one team foul served. Ironically one of them was a coach who had the nerve to pull my partner up on their serve.

Unless there are more stringent guidelines for club play (with no officials) then I see the problem getting worse.

[badger]

a foul serve is only a cuple of cm's different to a legal serve so how is it an advantage?

[fred]

i think if the serve is brought out as an excuse to some as why they lost the game!

[Grover]

Because it is cheating and not allowed. Rules are rules, if you don't like them take up another sport.

[pooki]

calm down grover i think badger was just curious. I do agree a foul serve is a foul serve and you should be called up for it however i think people can read to much into it and blame them losing because apparently the opposion played with a foul serve.

[RCE]

This law in badminton seems to be unfair, we talk about a couple of cm gives an advantage but the height of players can vary by feet ,would it not be fairer and more acurate to have a fixed point for all players

[Phil McBride]

No

[coops]

hehe - want to define a fixed point anybody? i'd like to see that one argued out.

the couple of cm advantage is not about the height - it's about the difference in service action - is' bio-mechanically easier to perform a drive/flick serve the higher you move.

similarly it's easier to drive/flick with a more horizontal racquet than with the legal downward pointing racquet.

hope this clears thing up... -

just a quicky tho - how tall do you think you'd have to be to be able to have a waist at almost net height? i know a lad who it 7ft tall, and plays - and backhand serves, it's horrible - it's soooo flat.. but fortunately it's legal so he can't really get much drive on it. scary thought if he figures it out tho... :oS

[gregr999]

Forget about the WAIST issue!!!

The advantage of a few cms is virtually nil. Even taller players have only a VERY minor advantage (IF at all) over a short player.

I agree with Neil... the position of the racket head with respect to the WAIST is NOT the primary problem. It's the position of the racket head with respect to the hand holding the racket. This is just another way of saying the orientation of the shaft is the more important factor here.

Illegal drives drives have very little to do with the waist factor. These illegal drive serves are made possible cuz the shaft of the racket (at the instant of contact) is oriented so that it is almost parallel to the ground.

For clarifiaction, check out the wording of Law 9.1.6 & the DIAGRAM on page 5 of the following link...

http://www.intbadfed.org/Portal/documents/laws2002.pdf