English Nationals

[derekwitham]

Did anyone go to the English Nationals at Burgess Hill. If so what did you think about the play?? I thought the mens singles was good throughout!!!

[dlp]

I went to the first day. I think the problem is the entries are mostly under 21 players, with the few older players being full senior England players.

On the first day there were only a couple of games through the whole day that were genuinely competitive, i.e. the outcome was not predictable.

Good to see Smith, Honey and Ouseph showing great improvement though.

[danbelcher]

It was awesome. I saw most of the quarters and all the semis on Saturday as well as the finals. Play was superb. The shuttles supplied by sponsors Carlton seemed to be giving a few problems. The highlights were Robertson and Jeffrey trying to play on with broken rackets and Robert Blair pulling his shorts down in the players enclosure before the door had shut, very amusing. Play was superb in every discipline. I believe the Nationals are heading to the Bolton Arena next year, is that true? If so, it's a shame as the Triangle is a superb venue.

[archie]

Can anybody tell me about Andrew Smith.

He seems to be the most prominant young players and yet he does not seem to take part in any junior events. (I can't find any results for him).

He seemed to do well in the Nationals so I ask what is his background ?

[Frodo]

rumour has it that he does not bother with the challengers and keeps well clear of the England setup, only playing internationals.

I can only presume he has a good coach.

Just shows that it is possible to do well without involving the BAofE !!!

and I think he is under 19 !

[johng]

Frodo

I will throw that point back...and say I wonder how much better he would be if he was involved in the BAAof E setup

It is a question that can never be answered....

[johng]

Daniel

I thought that somebody mentioned the velodrome as the venue for the Nationals next year ?????????????????//

[Trev]

Andrew Smith is coached by Dave Hunt who has a great track record with other top men he has coached / worked with in the past - Paul Edevane, Matthew Smith, Nigel Tier, Martin Dew etc.

They concentrate in playing tournaments abroad to gain experience and to play against better players ( Mark Burgess is also in Daves camp ). They have the attitude that they just dont want to be Number 1 in England - they want to be Number 1 in the world - and to do that you dont want to be playing challengers in this country. Andrew would learn nothing by this.

Playing in the Japan Open will give him the experience of playing people Number 1 and 2 in the world now - so that he can be Number 1 in a few years time.

In repsonse to the "How much better would they be if they were involved with the BA of E??" ..... Well 2 out of the 4 semi-finalists are not involved ( Mark Burgess & Andrew Smith ) which tells me that they BAof E cannot be doing such a great job otherwise they would have the top 8 places!

[dlp]

As so often, it is largely a question of funding. Smith has played an amazing 25 world ranking events in the last year, his nearest bae funded contemporary is perhaps Rice (a year older) , Rice has played 4, Honey has played 7. Clearly experience of worldwide events is invaluable and helps to bridge the gap from junior potential to senior success.

The Welsh players take a similar approach and their players to higher world rankings by playng many events. The bae I imagine has to spread its money over a larger group of players.

[Frodo]

On a slightly different note, were there any TV cameras, videographers present ?

[frontman]

I thought smith was the most improved player at the nationals , I dont know about anyone else but I found his style to be like the asians , he is very flexible and attacking . His smashes were awesome and most with pin point accuracy . He is very good to watch and he has great power . Toby Honey has also improved alot .

Men doubles wise Blair is alot better than I thought he would be , I will also look out for Trueman and Foster , they had a great game against Clarky and Nath.

I know that Archer has done some great things for England and the lottery money the players recieve , but he is looking a little " old " , does anyone agree with this ? , how about if they put him with Blair ?

[RichNorman]

With regards TV coverage at the Nationals. On the Friday there was a camera floating around that came out at the start of the Men's singles. Didn't see too much of it after that but assume it was pointed toward Archer when he came out for the Doubles with Sullivan.

Must agree with Keith that Smith certainly looks a very good prospect. He came onto the Satellite scene 2 seasons ago along with Simon Hardcastle. They ended up playing each other in most of the finals with Hardcastle winning every one. He was certainly playing a few Challengers that season as well.

However, moving swiftly through the domestic tournament structure and onto the International circuit seems to have done wonders for his game. He is still U19, by my reckoning, and playing as he was this year I really wont be too surprised if he beats Houghton to take next year's National title.

[archie]

Now just hold on.

I maybe only a simple ageing club player but I need a few things explaining.

a) How is that two of Englands best singles players (Mark Burgess & Andrew Smith ) not be in the England camp.

b) How is it Smith can play 25 events and not be funded by England and the next best only plays 7 events and is funded by england.

I though the whole idea was that england did the funding to make the best players.

Does this mean the England setup is totally worthless. As an MD of a small company the England camp sounds like a total waste of investment to me!!


Your very sincerely .. confused.

"Alting er ikke som det ser ud til"

[elo]

andrew smith should support home events as well as abroad

[Grover]

Why should Andrew Smith support home events. Not saying he should or shouldn't but wondering why you think he should.

[Geof]

I understand the new BA of E web site will be up and running soon. It will be interesting to see if the site has a discussion forum to enable members to question Englands team management strategy.

[dlp]

Because there is little money in badminton unless you are the top player in England most of the players come from wealthy families who have supported them through the junior ranks. In international events anyone can play as a private entry but most of the England players are only sent on a few trips.

[Pglews]

I was fortunate enough to be sat next to a conversation between one of the England coaches and a player who is infamous for not being a huge fan of "the system" and they were having a similar discussion about Smith at the Herts open a couple of years ago.
The coach's point of view, was that Smith should stay within the system, as he had not even played enough u19 events to get into the nationals.
The player's point of view was that if shunning national events and competing abroad is whats going to help him, then he should go for it!
The coach's response was something along the lines of "thats why there are people inside the system and people like you who are outside of it".
I think Smith's results speak for themselves, I played him three years ago at Cumbria open and he beat me well and lost to Matthew Smith, who won the group and also the tournament. Matthew has since turned his hand to doubles and Andrew has started to absolutely fly in the singles!! Never mind taking Haughton the distance, he took Nikhil Kanetkar to 3 in the Welsh Open as well!
Of course the attitude thing will no doubt help him.
Oh and yeah not neglecting Toby Honey and Rajiv Ouseph who have started to really move as well, looking at results against Burgess and Haughton respectively.

[derekwitham]

I will be looking forward to watching to see how Andrew Smith gets on in the All England. I see he has a Malaysian so should be tough for him. At least he is the only singles player from England that is enjoyable and dynamic to watch.

[HarryBullocks]

I agree with Derek that Andrew Smith is the best looking player. I will be looking for him at the All England, How far does anyone think he will get?? I was suprised at some of the results last week at the Nationals. To see Mark Burgess beat Aamir Ghaffar. Also Smith beat Mark Constable which was a bit of an upset!!

[gurner]

hi everybody, I would just like to answer Archibald White's question of can anybody tell him about Andy Smith?
To start with i would just like to confirm Andy Smith is U19. When he was a lot younger he came from a phenominally strong age group, with the likes of Hardcastle, Mumby (then the number 1) and dudley. All very very good players of which 3 have remained in the system, they too may have been as good if they had had the oppotunities that Andy had. There is no denying that he has benefitted immensely from what he has/is doing and he is definitely a brilliant player.
But has he lost out????? Because he went out of the system at a young age he now refuses or turns down the possibilities of playing for his country at a junior level. On numerous occasions he has refused, now how many top players do you see not playing for their countries??? Also its seems to me that when he does go to a tournament he seems very isolated i.e. not many people talk to him, so when he does get picked for the England senior team (as long as he doesn't refuse) it's not going to do much for team spirit is it!!
Also moving away from the badminton side for a minute, he is by far the best U19 around for mens singles not only in England but in Europe as well. He or his coach allegedly sent to the selection committee a letter saying he didn't want to be considered for the world juniors in South Africa. Not only did he miss out on the badminton but he also missed out on what could have been some of the best moments and memories of his life!!!
Is it a good idea to be isolated from the system not only from Englands point of view but from his as well?

[frontman]

Just seen our main boy here Smithy is playing Yong Hock Kin at the All England 1st round ....oh dear.

[derekwitham]

i believe that the future of mens singles is looking better than i thought having seen Andrew Smith last week. Who agrees/disagrees??

[TedHuat]

In response to Rob, what has happened to the phenominal singles players that he mentioned that have remained in the system? I can't find anything about Dudley, is he still playing? I note from last years Nationals results that Smith beat Mumby 7-2 7-2 7-0 in the first round. Smith beat Hardcastle in this year's Nationals.

I also remember others around that time who were roughly in the same age group or a year above. What happened to Carl Goode as a singles player? He was a very good singles prospect but seems to be playing doubles now. Stuart Holder was another that seems to have disappeared. I remember that He won U17 Nationals one year. Many others seem to have turned to doubles. Why is that?

Perhaps Smith wants to get on and compete. Perhaps he has fun travelling all over the place competing! His tournament list on the IBF ranking list shows that he has played nearly 40 IBF ranking events since December 2000 on four continents!! On the other hand for example, Carl Goode (who I think maybe a year older) has only played in 2 IBF doubles events in Wales and Ireland and did not start until December 2002. Therefore he is 2 years behind Smith in international tournament experience as well as being a year older!

PS IBF ranking system is fantastic as you can look at results back as far as the early 1990s

[gurner]

Unfortunately Dudley has had a serious injury and has been out for a year. He too is a doubles player now. Carl Goode was a quality singles player but now he has turned to doubles due to his body frame being too wide to play singles *(making him to slow at turning). Carl is the same age in school years but due to the system in badminton he has had to move up an age group! Unfortunately due to natural body size and stuff all these singles players have grown in body size and due to this have all become slower than andrew smith. But they are all still very very naturally talented.

[TedHuat]

Shame about Dudley, I wonder how it happened?

Seems odd for players with wide body frames to switch from singles to doubles. I would have thought that top class doubles would require faster body turning and quicker movement over a shorter distance than singles. Any one any thoughts?

Hey, come to think that there have been some really wide upper bodied singles players in the past. Flemming Delfs, Sven Pri, Bochow come to mind. These days, there is Joppien from Germany and James Chua from Malaysia. No doubt there are more.

Is body shape is the most important quality that determines whether a player specialises in singles or doubles? Or is it the talent and the desire to compete at high level more important?

[RichNorman]

Can't see Smith getting past Yong Hock Kin at the All England (am happy to be proved wrong though..) but he is not the only promising young player on the scene. Rajiv Ouseph, in my opinion, is of the same talent level. He was unfortunate to get Houghton in the 1st round of this year's Nationals and gave him a very good game. With slightly more focus and aggression to his game he could easily start moving to the next level a la Smith.

Also, in response to Harry B; Smith was seeded 3 to Constable's 5 in this year's Nationals. Despite wanting to see the guy who beat me go on to win I was not surprised that Smith triumphed.