County Premier Weekends

[Trev]

What do people think about the format of the county premier A & B weekends where ten teams get together and play three matches over Saturday and Sunday.

The reason this was changed from playing matches home and away on a Sunday was supposed to be because there would be more sponsorship and more spectators.

Seeing as there are no spectators and no sign of any sponsorship, surely you would get more spectators at a venue that was near your home and not 200 miles away?

Also why are the officials so strict on advertising on t - shirts? There has been many a time where people have been asked to turn their shirt inside out as the logo is too big. I could understand if the event was covered live on TV.

Surely if we are trying to encourage sponsorship for the game, advertising should be as clear and visible as possible. All these restrictions do is put potential sponsors off.

[DuchyOpenBadminton]

I would welcome and support County matches being played in their own County. Certainly from my point of view as an umpire, I would certainly get more fixtures as Devon for example would play closer to home and I would get more events to umpire. I would also guess that from a financial point of view it would also be better.

[Luncheon]

For the top events in the country, they need to be centralised. The divisions lower than the Premier leagues are localised to some extent, to stop really silly journeys. So if the Premier leagues are to be national, then they have to be held in a central location. Otherwise Yorkshire might have to travel to Cornwall, one weekend then a little later travel to Hampshire, then travel to say Devon, it would be a nightmare and a test on peoples commitments to play for their county. I play for my county's 2nd team and I love the fact that every few weeks we have a county match, so you don't have to wait long for your next match, so I would understand that the Premier leagues would rather have more "matchdays", but on a national levl it is not logical. I'm sure there would be an awful lot of complaints from players with children and even other players if they had to travel up and down the country every couple of weeks. So the Premier leagues need to be centralised, however if there needed to be more matchdays (or weekends), then the Premier A and B could be increased so there are more teams or just combine both leagues to create a larger Premier league!!

[ipocock]

I think the idea of the county weekends is spot on in principle. I don't know if there is a department at the BA of E which is working on sponsorship deals for the weekends, but that is certainly an area that needs some attention.

I have to say, I somewhat prefer the idea of all being in one place for a weekend rather than a freezing cold hall in the back end of nowhere on a dreary Sunday.

We definitely need more sponsorship and media coverage of the weekends though.

[caztaylor]

I would agree with the last two comments that the principle of the top leagues being national competitions means that central venues have to be used. Some of the venues that have been used would allow spectators but others would not, even if any significant numbers were attracted. There needs to be more efective advertising of the events, concentrated in areas local to each event where it is realistic to expect people to be interested in watching. I have played in county matches within the last 10 years where just the 1st and 2nd teams of two counties have played each other and far more spectators have been attracted than any Premier w/e (and there was a small charge!)
Regarding advertising on T-shirts, the only reason I can see for requiring players to change shirts because of the size of advertising would be if a media sponsor was concerned about other company's logos. As there is never any media coverage at the week-ends surely it is a non-issue and players should be left to wear shirts from those sponsors that have been attracted to the sport.

[Michael Banks]

Is this going to be the same format for next year? Have the BA of E done anything to improve the coverage so that there is more and publicity and support?

[Michael Banks]

Sorry for the repeated post but does anyone know if it is the same format?

[ipocock]

let's keep the weekends but make more of an effort with them. The ba of e must make a better efoort to get them on tv. Eurosport and Sky will both take them if they are free and that means the BA of E paying for the weekends to be filmed and edited and then sky/eurosport/bbc broadcast it.
The idea is that you pay for the filming with sponsorship.
It works! And the thing about the shirts is just plain silly.

[ipocock]

let's keep the weekends but make more of an effort with them. The ba of e must make a better efoort to get them on tv. Eurosport and Sky will both take them if they are free and that means the BA of E paying for the weekends to be filmed and edited and then sky/eurosport/bbc broadcast it.
The idea is that you pay for the filming with sponsorship.
It works! And the thing about the shirts is just plain silly.

[Martin Dew-Hattens]

Trebor (or is your Dad behind the alias),

You ask why some umpires are so strict.

The first answer is because!!

The second answer is that there are good umpires and bad umpires. A good umpire understands a players moods and needs, and the bad umpire simply spits out the rules as per the book.

I have had the please to be judged by some great umpires and once I even went back to a Norwegian umpire to tell him how good I thought he was. He must have thought I was having him on. On the other hand I have had the misfortune to look up to some right plonkers!! When you get the real plonker the best thing is at the end of the match to shake hands just a little too firmly and make them almost fall out of the high stool. It puts the "sh.ts" up them. Just look them right in the eye when you are doing it!

The only guy I know who has ever got an umpire removed form the chair is Derek Talbot. This was during a match against Malaysia.

On another occasion it dawned on me that the line judge on the back line was actually asleep. This was during the Swedish Open one year in Malmo. I had great fun waking him up.

Several times I had to ask them to stop reading the newspaper. Believe me it happens!

In the far east one particular umpire from Thailand used to comment on the winning shot. i.e "good shot - service over". Quite funny to hear actually but not quite impartial.

Other umpires used to insist that you tuck your shirt into the shorts to look tidy. On your bike mate was my answer I have better things to concentrate on.


In 1982 (I think) I was in two All England finals and the phone went. It was Frank Wilson the ref. He said "do you have any preference for the order of play". Simply I said "If I have a choice its first and last" since I wanted to get the rest. However I then said "but I know I don't get that choice since the tv will decide the order". He had to agree with me and so it was. It was nice of him to ring anyway. Frank was always the nice guy.

Happily English umpires are some of the best in the world and I can only think of one real "Richard Head" to have crossed my path. I won't give his/her name here.

Actually one of the best in the world is Mike Gilks. Hard but fair. Thats all one can ask for. I wouldn't have told him that 15 years ago since he would have had one over on me. I think we understood each other.

Over the years as a general rule I had decided that those umpires who have a boring job in their daily life are the bad umpires. They find it a pleasure to rule and decide over international and national badminton players.

Who remembers an umpire in the semi of the All England deciding that one pair had been away from the five minute break for 5 minutes and 0.000001 seconds and giving the match to the other pair. Of course old Herbert saved the day and overuled the "very clever" umpire. Any umpires listening might be able to put some meat on this story.

So umpires tell you not to have advertising on your shirt because they are told to and not because its bad for the game.

Come on now we are English - if we don't play to the rules its simply not cricket old chap!!

Seems like I am recounting some of the stories in a book "what I wrote" some years ago some years ago but never published for legal reasons. Can't tell you all the truth here and don't be so simple minded as to assume its all fair in sport.

But thats another story.

[MarkAllen]

Being an active umpire myself, I'll pass on commenting on what Martin has to say in general, but one point needs clarifying. Dress & advertising codes for events are part of the event rules, not the rules of the game, and are enforced by the referee. The umpires are required only to bring possible breaches of the code(s) to the attention of the referee for him to make a decision, and are instructed by the referee as to the extent of his tolerance.
Enough said?

[Trev]

Mark , yes the weekends are the same format this year - so I presume we will get the same pathetic rules regarding advertising.

Martin, why do you think the BAof E has this ruling on advertising. Is it because we have so much money coming into the game we cannot take anymore! I think not! Is it because we have a major national sponsor that pays the BAof E to sponsor the county league ( and pays the counties expenses ) again not.

If I were sponsoring a team in the league I would want it to have the biggest advert possible as I would want value for money.

What happens in Denmark? - I can remember from years ago the advertising was quite big on the front and back of shirts - any change now?

[dlp]

I agree in principle that the county weekends are good from the point of view of getting the top players out for their counties and for reducing the workload on players. But whats the point of having those stars there if there are no spectators. I've been to a lot of the premier wends and been practically the only spectator there.

The premier isn't marketed as a spectator event, there is NO seating! If we can fill an England /China tour why can't we get people out to support there own counties! At least the "home" teams should get some more support. Even in Devon we regularly get spectators for 2nd/3rd team matches.

[MarkAllen]

Let me see if I can outline some of the problems that surround this issue.

1) If you agree in principle with the weekends, how many do you have? How many holes are there in the event calendar?

2) More weekends = more expense for the counties.

3) Less weekends means you need to hold them at venues with large numbers of courts, and how many of those are there?

4) Spectator facilities are a bit thin at the venues I've been to. Most of them there's just enough room for the teams and officials.

5) The whole spectator/sponsorship/TV question is a real "chicken & egg" thing. Which comes first? Which promotes which? Damned if I know. Would someone from the BAoE care to comment?