Oh dear...oh dear...oh dear...

[Site Support]

All those who have repeatedly ignored 'hints' that their behaviour is not appropriate and abusive will now have their accounts suspended.

I think it is fair to say that that enough 'slack' has been given and now ignored. On top of this the moderators will now at their discretion remove any future registration by those who have repeatedly ignored the guidelines - AND remove any post EVEN if relevant and non abusive.

As previously mentioned, this forum is for the those who want to talk about badminton. Not those who want to have a laugh at others expense and provide racist and inappropriate remarks.

Thanks again for your support,

Site Support.

[stuartwardell]

I was on line last night reading some of the things people were saying but i have to admit site support that apart from the rascism most were quite humerous and i didn't feel that they were really there to offend.
Sometimes these forums do sound the same its quite nice to see some witty comments as long as they are not abusive.
Just my view,and iam normally the sensible one.

[Phil McBride]

Yes, I agree with Stuart. I was on line on Thursday night boosting the post count with Freddie and Michael Hill, and as far as I remember I was the one being insulted.(I did ask for page five of service rules to be reinstated via e-mail, but still have not received a reply)But I take it as the tongue in cheek way in which they are intended hence my reply(s).

People are introducing comments to which the posters have to back up their initial theories and it is producing some witty responses, nee BANTER.

Some people are rising to the bait so to speak and spitting the dummy, just look at a previous thread where site support was asked for a persons e-mail address so that person can go round insulting another by e-mail. Now that is taking it too far, and not knowing how to let it go.

Just as well the majority of that one was removed by the great hosting calamity of '03.

Yes modiration is good and also required but try to keep it relevant, why remove posts that are relevant and non abusive? Of course the site is run by you and has to beyour vision of what you are trying to achieve but come on big brother.

[stuartwardell]

Well said Phil,
the banter that came on last night was in my eyes reponding to some views that were different to say the least.

This particular person had his views on black people swimming if i remember and as far as i could see was asking for what he got last night.
I also dont think that these parties seemed to be offended by each others comments to each other and as a neutral person reading them found them very amussing.Just what this site needs sometimes.

[Site Support]

Stuart/Phil/All,

In response to your points.

The points you raise are very valid - people come on here to banter about badminton and much of it is light hearted.

BUT, then you go on to say 'apart from the racism most were quite humorous'. Under no circumstances is racism acceptable.

Many of the posts that are deleted you do not see at all...and if you think that some of the ones visible are inappropriate the content of those deleted would more than vindicate our decision.

It is good to see that you care about the forum by virtue of posting these comments. We will continue to provide a platform for people who want to talk about badminton and certainly won't let those messing about spoil it for the majority.

We have had 'many many' complaints about certain posts and contributors. As well as the abusive posts there is an attempt to take each thread off topic.

We encourage light hearted comments as well as 'banter' but as volunteers we have enough to do without babysitting the forum to eradicate childish and bigoted comments.

Let's hope we can now return to debating badminton...

[freddiegotfingered]

As far as I recall, Michelle Hills brought up the racist comments about blacks not being able to swim. I can't recall anyone else posting such messages, especially myself.

It's nothing but Banter based around a badminton question. No-ones getting hurt and the majroity are enjoying it.

Stuart said it all really:
"This particular person had his views on black people swimming if i remember and as far as i could see was asking for what he got last night."

And for that you ban not him but the others that put him down because of it?

[freddiegotfingered]

I have replied but my post was removed. Instead I have emilaed yourselves at support@badders.com and also post the e-mail below:

------------------------------------------------------
Site Support,

It would appear that all my messages are being removed without warning.

Could someone shed some light on this and also why my previous account, freddiestrangerer, was removed?

As I recall and as is displayed in the forum, one user was being racist (michael hill) and because I questioned this with him, I get banned?

I would hope you can respond to this and not force me to question your Legal and Privacy Statements with your ISP, Simply.Com Ltd.

Fred Strange.

[Site Support]

The owners of the forum have the right to remove any post at their discretion.

If you feel aggrieved please feel free to leave.

[freddiegotfingered]

Do the owners have the right to not comply with their Legal/Privacy Statement?

[Site Support]

Our legal/privacy policy is strictly adhered to. If you have any issues with it please email:

privacy@badders.com

[freddiegotfingered]

E-mail here, e-mail there ... you'll forgive me if I continue the matter with Simply.com Ltd.

[Site Support]

If you require a contact name or details please let us know.

[hilly1285]

I feel that i am the one who is being victimized, i put down some very valid points, backed up my answers, and for that i got a torent of abbuse fired at me!

You say that there was some racist points, but i cant see any.

The reason i posted some comments which were slightly off the subject title was because i was trying to stick up for myself. Yet i am the one who is seeming to get blamed for it all. Surely thats discrimination because the only reason you are writing all these comments is because i am only 18.

Bit shocking dont ya think!!!!!!!!!!

[Site Support]

Michael,

Fortunately most of the abusive, defamatory racist comments were removed before people had chance to see them.

Age has nothing to do with forum. We have many posters who are under 15, but you wouldn't realise in most cases because of their well thought out arguments and positive expression.

We also have many older members who enjoy debating on a regular basis.

One of the more positive facets to the internet is that people can be seen for who they are rather than have a label attached to the such as age and race.

We welcome all badminton enthusiasts here no matter who they are and where they come from.

[hilly1285]

Thats just my point, i put forward my point of view, then get ripped. I cant win.

Simplest thing is just not to post anymore and maybe try a football site where i will be allowed my own opinion, without it being thrown back into my face.

[Phil McBride]

No Michael, please do post. You and everyone else is and are welcome to their own point(s) of view. Some of us agree and some of us don't.

The problem is that as well as sticking up for yourself you may have become a little ruffled in the feather department. You should have seen what I got in the service rules thread, but along with the posts I also got private messages from Freddie which were not having a pop but good constructive comments and banter, therefore I replied in good natured jest and not an insulting manner.

Sometimes we must all play devils advocate and express our opinions to the best of our knowledge or opinion. Don't feel victimised just because people have a go, you need to remember that although you have just finished your A levels in what I would judge to be some kind of sports science some of us have things called honours degrees in biology and genetics so we can also say our techinical viewpoint, others are themselvs champion athletes and can express their personal viewpoint.

Noone is wrong they are all different views of the same scenery.

Don't think of this as a slur, yes you did get stick but it is how we deal with it that counts.

[Darrenh]

Michael i think you are missing the point.when writing things like black people cant swim,what response did you want.Its just like saying England will never have a world champion singles player.
Just because you study sports science doesnt mean that everything you read is true.
The problem is then how you put it cross,at the age of 18 we all thought we knew it.

[Phil McBride]

Darren I think you might find that if Michael has read a text book telling him facts and figured about genetic likleyhood and resultant variations on the human anatomy then the chances are it is 100% acurate but maybe not 100% relevant to general science and more focused towards sports science. Therefore relevant to the sport of badminton to a certain degree.

Michael has put up what he has learned and has been severley pelted for doing so, you have now had your say. How would you like to be completley rubbished for posting that.

I actually thought that the people concerned knew each other due to the nature of the posts, because we have seen it happening more and more over the last few months, a cheeky wee comment and jesting in return. See the thread on anyone remember..........

Everyone is entitled to their point of view but we don't all see the same way and thats why people discuss.

The last few days have just seen things escalate to an intolerable level for most of the regulars on this site.

[Grover]

Well said Phil, Michael don't take the bait, keep on posting and ignore any stupid irrelevant personal comments.

[freddiegotfingered]

They can take away our posts, but they'll never take away our freedom!

[stuartwardell]

Site support, you have said that you have taken out all the racial stuff yet you have left in the one that started it all off in the first place.Try reading is a champion born Michael Hills posts.

[johng]

errrrr..must have missed the post that was deemed racist...............all I saw was something that stated a medicle fact that 'black' people have muscle and fibre attributes that make them better (or worse) at some sports than others.

These are NOT racist comments..they are fact..please lets get some common sense back into this debate

[Darrenh]

Obviously you are not black John.
I have also read it and most of the stuff that MH has read and is spouting in these forums is very much out of date nonsense and clearly was not a topic worth dicussing.Remember John this is a Badminton Forum not a sports science class where the student spouts things straight out of a text book.
If black people are heavily boned then it didnt stop Joel Gail moving around the court at fast speed and i hope he progresses and i am sure he can swim michael Hill.

[Grover]

Stuart/Darren, leave it out! The conversation is getting back on track. Whatever is left is left, if it went, it deserved to be deleted I'm sure.

Let's leave all the crap behind and let's forget the silly off topic rubbish that was posted. If you have anything sensible to say prove yourself and develop the debate again. Forget any previous posts. Stop being bitter and show that you have something to say.

It takes a stronger man to develop the argument than bitch about previous comments.

[Michael Banks]

Here here. Let's change the record and stop bleating about previous posts. We're all adults here so let's act like them. Let's get on with taking the conversation forward not backward.

[stuartwardell]

Site support is there any chance you can stop this Michael Hills from giving me private messages which are frankly very boring and at times are quite rude.
After trying to show us that hes had a good education by quoting nearly everything that he has learned to date hes now starting to show his age.
I dont expext site support to get rid of this post as iam not being rude iam stating a fact, and you have deleted most posts and allias which are over the top as you have said so could you do something about this Allias now.
Iam sure this is not the first time he has done this.Thankyou.

[Khalid]

These are not racist comments ...

I beg to differ. They may not be intentionally prejudiced but that does not change their nature.

They are facts. I beg to differ again. They are opinions based on some reported findings. These do not constitute facts. Newtons laws were considered facts so much so that they predicted the existence of a planet which could not be seen, hence the planet Vulcan, that exerted a gravitational pull on Mercury.

Einstein, later disproved the existence of Vulcan with his General Theory of gravitatation - eighty years later.

There have been a number of case studies in the past, with the best of intentions, as to why certain ethnic groups are less able, due to biological and genetic traits. These studies were accepted at the time as part of our scientific knowledge. However over time these conclusions have been shown to be incorrect as well as their scientific method of discovery.

Thankfully us humans are capable of progress, but it is all to easy to take a couple of studies wrap them up in technical jargon and claim a new theory.

This does not make the points made in past postings irrelevant, but we should look for alternative explanations as well in preference to sweeping statements.

The issue raised by the thread is an interesting one, and lets keep it that way and not abuse the system through the forums or the instant messaging facility provided for us.

[Site Support]

Stuart/All,

Please email us at: abuse@badders.com

with any issues you have regarding inappropriate posts or messages.

I think there has been enough discussion on these issues now...let's get back to talking about badminton.

Thread now locked.