North South Divide

[DagenhamDave]

Do you agree with me that there is a north/south divide in badminton. I may be accused of being biased, having been brought up in the heart of English badminton ( Essex ), but I feel the majority of the better players have come from South of the Watford Gap.

Has anybody got any theories on this? In my opinion it is due to the fact that there is more money in the South of the country with better facilities and coaches. It may also have something to do with the fact that the Northerners cannot afford to travel to the training sessions and support the coaching necessary to make a top player. This raises another point that coaching is more expensive in the South of the country, I know certain coaches who charge in excess of £30 a session, but let's not get off the subject.....why is all the talent coming from the South?

[johng]

Wonders if Dave would care to borrow my bullet proof vest

[angusmcsporren]

Watford? But that's London you haggis! How can you say that the north/south divide lies at London?

We have no such divide in Scotland so maybe I shouldn't comment on this. However, I feel that the north/south divide in England lies closer to Sheffield. What do others think?

[bikerchic]

Are you sure ALL the talent is coming from the South..let's look at facts Mens No 1 (for ages) Colin Haughton womens top 4 singles Hallam, Morgan, Mann, Pittard..top men (in the world) Robertson & Clarke,Simon Archer...in the UK Hunt, Lindley, Roebuck, Blair, Palethorpe, Foster...top women (in the world) Emms, Kellog, Tripp, Wright, Sankey, Davies....top coaches John Quinn (who also won the World Junior Mixed title) and Andy Wood......now are you sure all the talent is in the south...yes all the above probably now live well below the Watford Gap but isnt that cos the NAtional Badminton Centre is down south where all the squads meet and train..on that basis surely it makes economical sense (not just cos all Northers are poor)for people to live close by to their best training arena....if MK was situated in Manchester then all the talent would be in the north !!!!

[DagenhamDave]

Biker, having looked at the names you have reeled off i must admit there seems to be a lot of doubles talent in the Midlands. I'm not sure about singles though, Haughton is hardly in the same class as the Southern boys who have not long retired. Morgan is a taffy, Blair is a jock and did you mention Pittard?

It's a little unfair to start bringing out coaches names( Quinn top class, not sure about that one )and junior results.

The northerners you have mentioned have become better players since they moved down south and that speaks volumes. You have said in your posts before that you do not rate some of the names that are now top class players in your eyes, come on biker Chic, make you mind up love!

There should be a game once a year between the North and South, i think it could be very popular. Have to be up there so there is no moaning about the travelling.

[bikerchic]

I agree a North vs South match would be ideal and on neutral ground in Brum...I still dont rate some of the names that you question me on..however not everyone agreed with me so quoting names that are still top of the english game and everyone can realte to...apart from Darren Hall, who being an Essex lad I persume you are referring to, and perhaps Peter Knowles...I wouldn't class Essex has the heart of English badminton..I could be quite derogitory but cant be bothered...I think Surrey stands a greater chance of being at the heart...

You question Quinn as not being top class when he won the World Junior Mixed Doubles title ??? How many of our juniors ever rose to that...none

I agree that to enhance their game they have moved south and again I state that is only cos the training is focused to weither London or MK, about 10 years ago if you were in the squads and refused to live in or train at Wimbledon you weren't selected for anything and unfortunately english badminton is still trying to get away from that image...move everything up North and you'd still get the same curretn results and probably with a saving seeing as the north is cheaper..

Wales & Scotland are still north of Watford Gap and OK you won on the Pittard score

[DagenhamDave]

North v South on neutral ground ...Birmingham, are you having a laugh. Still what's a few quid in petrol money for the pleasure of whipping the northern monkeys!

Junior mixed doubles event! Who on earth did he beat in that one? If he was that good then why didn't he go on to better things?

I know I am going slightly off track but it's a disgrace that Blair can play for England. I know Muggeridge now plays for Wales, but it doesn't make it right. To play for England you should be born and bred in England. What makes it worse is that he is a Jock, they hate us you know!

[streetboy]

Wouldnt be worth it Dag's.
We could pull out of retirement Darren hall,Anders nielsen,Peter knowles Duncan bridge Paul holden,Trevor darlington,Mark elliot,Alex bennet,Richard harmsworth,Tracey Dineen,Fiona smith,Sue louis,Karen beckman,Jo muggeridge,Fellicity Gallup,Peter smith and they would still wap them Northern Monkeys up geezer.
Come on Biker chic we will ave it in your yard if you dont wana travel.

[DagenhamDave]

To name but a few Street Boy!...There's plenty more where they came from.

Wouldn't mind a jolly up to Birmingham to watch the match. Are you up for it? Sweet mate , sweet!

[DagenhamDave]

[bikerchic]

I agree with you about the migration of players..its happening everywhere though and our only real great success was when the Indonesians junped camp and came to play for England, however they have now realised that they cant play in the Olympics for the UK so have jumped ship back to Indonesia..

As for John Quinn dont know who he beat and I think injury forced him to pack the game up (?) however his partner in that event went on to rule the world...Jo Goode (or Wright as she was back inthose days)

[DagenhamDave]

Now we are getting to the real reason why he won the event...Jo Goode, a quality southern bird.

You are right Biker...It's bang out of order those foreigners playing for our country. The Indo's come over hear take our money and when things are back on track they take a bunk back to Indo! good riddance I say! They should have taken Blair with them.

I would rather have a bunch of northerners representing the country than a group of mercenaries. It makes my blood boil.

[henrysnotter]

I think the real reason that Northerners
are not as good as southerners is the fact they seem to be Lazy, During my Life time I have lived in the North and the south and I believe that in the north they wait for things to happen, Where as in the south they work for it,
I think the talent is there in the North but as we all know just having talent is not good enough you need the fitness & mental strength as well, Also I feel the northerners diets could be better The days of bread & butter pudding are long gone!

[Spectator]

Essex may not be as strong as they once were but they won the ICT five times not all that long ago and one year beat Yorkshire 10-0 with a second string! (The A squad were on International duty I think)

[bikerchic]

you forgot about Yorkshire Puddings....

[bikerchic]

ICT that's a blast from the past...ICT doesn't count most players are too tired to play as they stay up too late, or either too hung over or dont bother to play as the floor at the uni was too hard and slippy

[DagenhamDave]

Glory days Paul.... Palmer , Hall, Hunt, Milton, Asquith, Dineen, Harmsworth...it was too easy in those days wasn't it fella!

Then it all went wrong when the likes of Bish got involved...too interested in the singing and not enough training.

[bikerchic]

It wasn't the singing more like the hair dryer and hair gel....

[DagenhamDave]

gives us Essex lads a bad name...soft as ****!!

[bikerchic]

you lads managed to do that yoursleves..jut lookat Pete Chambers and Simon Kaye as examples..how on earth Simon ever managed to play for England was unknown to most players

[henrysnotter]

This Bish chap doesnt sound like a badminton player, Is he a homosexual?? That wouldnt be allowed in my day

[Spectator]

I'm sure Boosey would disagree.

[DagenhamDave]

So many superstars from one county....quality! Get this group together and they would still take the best of the northern monkeys!!

[bikerchic]

what in the national hair dressing salon...i think i saw half of the old essex badders players on that new tv show 'The Salon' that's where they all end up !!!!!!!!!

[Spectator]

Well I suppose there are only so many people they can get to advertise Black Pudding or Hovis bread that TV opportunities for failed Northern badminton players are limited.

[DagenhamDave]

I gather you are a northern sort Biker Chic, I would probably be able to find your mug shot on www.mingers.com.

[bikerchic]

what are Pete Chambers and simon KAye doing with themselves these days ?

[bikerchic]

Sorry Dave..not from up North and not a minger either..dont eat Hovis bread or speak with a funny accent so hard luck...do you have streaked blonde hair ?

[southernmonkey]

Biker Chic i have to draw the line there.Peter Chambers was class and if he was playing today would probably be England No1.Simon kay however no comment.
Answer to players coming to the south from the north is that the best players were here in the south so you would have been stupid not to.
Just because they gave up when they were here wasnt because of the location it was the players themselves.
Players like John Leung,Alan Cottel,Nicola Jordan to name but a few were just not cutting it at the top level so gave up in the north so its not a southern thing its an English thing.

[southernmonkey]

Julia mann came down to the south and became the England NO1 so we cant be that bad as an area either Biker Chic.

Well done Julia Mann thats what i say because she had the vision to see how to improve and by changing her area she changed her life for the better in badminton.
Many women singles players have fallen at that hurdle but she didnt

[bikerchic]

All the best players aren't inthe south...as my earlier list of players showed..all the training facilities that England used are in the south and this was born out of the Ciro days, that's why Julia moved to London as Ciro was in charge at the time all england training was in London and if you didn't attend or move down you weren't selected..unfortunately like the Thatcher days english badminton has never recovered from what one bloke did to the english scene...the other reason for Julia's move was her husband was offered a bloody good job in London on money they couldn't refuse and they moved !!

Out of the players still playing today (not those of old) pick a Southern team, 2 mens singles, 2 ladies singles, 2, 2 mens doubles, 2 ladies doubles and one mixed pair and let's see who would be in it ?

[BarryWhite]

I agree Monkey, Julia has done very well since she moved to the wimbledon area. She is now our only consistant world class ladies singles performer. She is a credit to the game, the way she handles herself on and off the court, a true professional.

Not sure about the names you mentioned in the earlier thread, I have heard of Alan Cottell but who on earth are John Leung and Nicola Jordan. Never heard of them before?

[southernmonkey]

No the facts are that Julia may have moved because of the other halfs job but also the best players were here at the time down south,Anders Kevin sott Peter Knowles,Darren,fiona smith and sue louis,richard Harmsworth,jo davis,chunty,peter Smith,Tanya groves so she would have been silly not to come regardless of her husband.
Since the coaching standards have gone down everywhere its now that the runners come into the limelight and guess what Biker there all from up north and i'll give you that one.

[Grover]

Monkey, why have the coaching standards gone down? Is this because badminton is now being centralised or less coaches are coming though? thanks.

[bikerchic]

you still haven't done your southern team ?

[southernmonkey]

No because as ive just said that now the dominance is in the north but as you keep banging on about English badminton being crap its headless chickens running around these days.
When the south dominated the results in europe and the world were the best.This was because there techniques were better and they had better brains from better schooling down here.
I still think that if the oldens could do abit of training down here they could still take on the northern youngsters just like Knowlsey did the other day.Anders,Darren,knowles if were still training could wap colin today just like they used to.

[southernmonkey]

Grover there isnt enough regular screening of the ascessors who train these coaches these days.Everyone seems to have a coaching badge these days even when they cant hit it.
The BAOE dont seem to be interested in this even when the standards are falling from under them.I still believe that these people that are grading the coaches should be checked regular.

[IanRoss]

Southern M,

You seem well informed about the coaching scene. Have you just become a coach and thought that the assessors weren't up to scratch?

If so, why?

[Khalid]

I must admit I was a little dissappointed by my Part 1 coaching course, when I noticed that several of the participants did not know what a forehand/backhand grip was coupled with assurances from the assesors that we would all pass.

[FredWest]

I have recently passed my coaching award and I thought Ian was a wonderfull tutor! Thanks Ian

[southernmonkey]

Yes Ian,
i cant understand how an assesor can have the highest qualification but not have played to the highest club level or above and cannot hit an overhead well or even demonsrate to the coaches on there courses.
How an earth have they got assesors jobs and who is regulating these people or are they the ones who just put there hands and say can i have the job.
I know for a fact this is going on in my county and until this problem is tackeled we will keep on producing less talent in England.
Why do strong counties then become weak? Its because the coaches who were doing the good work leave Ian and crap coaches come in there place,coaches who should never have been passed on the courses but are willing to do the job.This is not good enough.

[spanks]

I agree monkey. As a junior i was lucky enough to get coached by some of the best coaches in my county and i suspect the country. And i was also lucky to have one of the top assessors take me on my part 1 course. however when i see some of the coaches teaching and demonstrating poor techniques and bad habbits it infuriates me to think that they have the same qualification as i can. They might aswell hand them out on the back of cereal packets!

[richdoling]

Iam still waiting for Biker Chics answer to Southern Monkey.
Looks like hes got a point Biker chic when we were doing well as a nation all the best players were from the south its a fact.