UP AND COMING SCOTTISH JUNIORS

[smellymonkee2]

as you may understand from the name i am relatively old and dont really know anythin about junior badminton i was just wondering who the ones to watch are?

[Godfather]

i dont think you are old at all, i think it is the saem group of youngsters trying to ruin this forum by using several aliases...im referring to fraser ballantyne, sean o farrell and cameron barbour for a start.

since u asked, i would also like to comment on the sudden interest in scottish juniors...

the group of players are no more talented than those who went before them in recent years, yet get so much more. that is why whenever a good result occurs, they get praise left right and centre as if it was a massive achievement.....this has to be done so everyone involved with the programme can say "you see, our programme is working etc etc". the truth is though that the results dont compare to the ability and results in scotland, uk and europe of previous juniors...so extra effort has to be made to make out these players are far superior.

naturally the players develop confident attitudes which leads to cocky and arrogant behaviour, as if they r better than they really r. this is evident recently by the daft suggestions that a scottish team would beat an english team of the same age. rant over.

[smellymonkee3]

i dont think so james. jealously is a terrible thing as these jnrs put in a lot of hours a week so just leave them alone they are under enough pressure and let the results do the talking

[jillie]

I totally agree with "THE LEOPARD" i think the juniors are under immense pressure from every angle for medals at the next european junior. And credit must be given when credit is due. Fair enough they maybe arrogant and "COCKY" but at the end of the day these juniors are performing and are the best we have so we should be praising them not trying to put them down at every opportunity.

[Godfather]

how are they under pressure? i know of many other players who put in more hours a week.

also, how r they under pressure to win a medal at the next europeans?scotland r a nation who in the last 10 years have rarely won a medal, therefore anything like a quarter final or a medal should b looked upon as a great success, not as a "MUST HAVE OR ELSE". the pressure lies with the top nations to make sure they keep winning medals.

im not doubting talent, but am just making it clear that plenty of juniors before achieved much more but without the funding, training, and input that is occuring now.....but never did they brag on forums or expect expect expect which i see occuring now. prove me wrong.

[king]

I am a memeber of the "elite 16" squad and i would like to address the negative feedback that the juniors seem to be getting.
Firstly, all of the juniors mentioned and others, have dedicated a large portion of their lives into training hard in the hope of becoming the best. In some cases training over 20 hours a week.

The funding we receive is greatly appreciated, however we were not given it on a plate, we had to earn our place in the squad. It is not our fault that in past years the funding has not been there to support all players but we will take advantage of it now and use it to the best we can.
As for justifying the support, the most recent results show juniors are making semi finals (Calum Menzies progressing into the final of the mens singles) at senior tournaments.

In my opinion the juniors possess a lot of confidence,which is often mistaken for arrogance. Its about having the confidence to stand your ground on court and believe you are the best. You don't see Camilla Martin appologising for her behaviour on court!

The negative feedback is not needed and won't help anyone. So unless it's constructive keep it to yourself.

[smellymonkee3]

totally agree with you there kazy baby i see these juniors training and all of there attention and i wish along with many others wish i was in that squad as the training and attention that they receive is top class and the results show this

[rebelwithoutacause]

for once kazy baby i agree! Y o Y are you not suporting the elite of our elite juniors...badminton is all about confidence. Its time to say bye bye to the "old school" and look to the new there are no more perfect gentlemen who are good badminton players get used to it!!!

[mcsmegor]

hold on...elite??? How come Ive not lost a junior doubles game in my own age group, in scotland, for the past 4years near enough..yet i recieve no funding from your elite lottery group but can still spank you all on a doubles court! where were half of your supposed up and coming elite stars this afternoon on finals day at the glasgow?? you beat a "Z" class england team and now you think your big time??? also you have earned the right to be in the elite squad?? Kareena please explain how you had to earn this right to be in that squad...womans doubles is in a dire state at the moment in scottish badminton...and your more interested in hockey.. plus im fed up with all these folk puting different names on this forum...if your all amazing and love bragging about it put your names down id love to hear who you all are...in my opinion you are abusing this forum and not using it the way it should...im sure those who read it down south couldnt give a monkeys about how great you think you are. kareena if you are gonna put youreself on a pedastal and tell the world how fantastic your squad is then you will be hammered with negative comments. Do you have any idea of how lucky you are in that squad...if you choose to buckle down then you do have the coaching on a plate! juniors more talented in the past have had to struggle...it will be interesting to see after the next european juniors how many of you are still playing at this supposed top level! james taylor im behind you...roon yee

[Godfather]

i wil decide kazy baby what i comment on and what i dont, constructive or not.

i agree greg anderson said it all in his post, rather well written there lad.I am in total disbelief that ur saying a supposed elite junior also partakes in hockey?? is this true....if so i cant believe how someone could belive to be elite but playing two sports simultaneously....is kazy baby implying she goes to school, trains for hockey, and trains for her elite badminton.....20 hours plus a week on just badminton. that is some feat if so kaz!!

only time will tell in this scenario i feel, opinions r biased and all talking has to be left to the court. still a long way to go juniors if u do want to be regarded a success...i shouldnt c how u should fail if u r all so commited and receive wot u r currently getting...trips across europe and the world juniors should help. it is up 2 u to prove everyone else wrong, but dont think putting a lot of effort in is something that should b rewarded with sympathy, that comes naturally with anything in life so u are not hard done to. when the tempatations of going out, and other lifestyles grasps u, it wil b interesting to see who stays put with badminton.prove me wrong.

[jillie]

so what you are sayin is that basically you dont agree with the squad? do you not think these youngsters should be given praise for things that they do well? well what i have seen of late you are not that far ahead of the YOUNGER players in the squad! what everyone must remember is that most of these boys and girls are still young and have a long way to go

[mcsmegor]

yes they should be given praise for what they do wel...and im sure the coaches do so what more do you want? that was the praise juniors had in the past

[jillie]

i am sure that they do get praise off of the coaches in my opinion we should get behind our top juniors instead of destroying there confidence?

[king]

Dear Greg and James,
I dont believe I have put myself on a pedastool, I wrote a report on the Home Countries expressing how well I felt the team played, I have posted factual results about tournaments.I do not rant on about how we are going to be the greatest thing since slice bread because results stand for themselves.

As for you being undefeated in doubles at your age group WELL DONE! Unfortunately the same cannot be said about the other disciplines! As for being miles ahead that could easily be questioned.

You have had your chance at European Juniors and now it is ours.

James i will quite happily show you a copy of our training programmes.

yours sincerely
Kareena Marshall

[GimpMask]

put it this way, i dont see any of the current juniors with any of the talents of robert blair, russell hopkins etc and they did come close to winning a medal at the europeans, so what chance to the current crop have????

[GimpMask]

sorry, didnt come close!!

[jillie]

well really you wouldnt know because you are from aaron

[jillie]

[Cutmaster1]

Just as a response to James taylor in his attempt to name and shame some people including myself of disrupting this forum sorry mate i only have one name and that is cutmaster and as for and as you will see my points have been valid throughout the threads .
Also having a bit of fun with phil and that as well. Even though my spelling is mostly awful

[phillsy]

The current crop of youngsters are quite impressive from what I have seen and hopefully they can go on to prove the doubters wrong. Just a couple of points:

- Yes, the youngsters are getting to semi's and finals, but what is the reason for this? It is a mixture of their own hard work and the fact that scottish badminton is a shambles at the moment. They are playing at a time when all the top players are retiring or winding down their careers. This, however, should be looked on by them as a massive opportunity to step up their training and aim for the national team. The eoropean juniors are unimportant in the grand scheme of things. Joppein won the juniors and he was already ranked in the top 100 in the world. Will this be the case with the lottery squad? I hope so.

- Ryan Baxter: "not that far ahead of the YOUNGER players in the squad!"

The youngsters have a lot of potential but do you really beleive this? From my point of view I am a player who has not trained for three years and stopped playing for nine months of that time. The fact that I could come back and regularly reach semi's and finals is a reflection of just how badly we need a new group of players to come through and take over from the older generation. I wait for the day when I walk on to court and get blown away by an 18 year old because we will be making progress, and the main aim must be a higher standard of badminton in Scotland. However, to say that the older players are "not that far ahead", is incorrect.

Is this current crop of players the answer to our prayers or should we be looking to develop the 10, 11 or 12 year olds? How many of the current lottery squad are going to win a medal at Olympic, commonwealth or world level?

They have demonstrated that they can achieve very good results so why must we bicker internally about it? The older players must attempt to help the juniors to develop wherever possible. Our goal is to beat the rest of the world not each other!! As stated in another thread the juniors seem to want to beat England, whereas England want to beat everyone.

I don't want this to be taken as a scathing attack on the lottery squad because it is not. I am just interested to here the views of others on the matter, and that includes the juniors, as they are the ones who must do the work. After all they know their situation better than anyone.

[Godfather]

can u explain cutmaster how i know for a fact you are also the leopard and greg petrie? seems u r abusing this fraser.

[Cutmaster1]

sorry im not any of those names you mentioned looks to me your just guessing anyway i think you should be commenting on the subject of the thread not whose who on badders.

[jillie]

No what i ment was that the juniors are not to far behind people that are a few years older than them. but i have saw quite a few of these youngsters play in tournaments and in my opinion are very impressive and to be honest with you i can see them making up the senior institute in the next few years. do u not think that junior badminton in scotland is on a way up?

[mcsmegor]

you question me and thomson are not that far ahead of the doubles couples within the lottery group...your top couple sean and andrew...i believe our last result against them was an 8 and 4...convincing enough?? not to mention that they are far ahead of the next ranked couple.. how can you comment on my other disciplines..are you the top in all three events?? since when did you start beating julie boyd and linda sloan...think i missed that part of the season. As for the european juniors we'l see how far you get...i believe i was a last 16 if im not correct..I dont doubt that many of the juniors have the potential to go on and better this..however there is no need to act as if you have already won the even without stepping on the court.
Also can you explain that when playing with the TOP mixed player in Scotland you still managed to fail beat a couple who has been around for possibly two decades!!
I want any arguements to end all i want is for the juniors who blab about how great they are to realise that when it comes to International senior badminton, they are nothing yet..no-one born in scotland has even scratched the surface in making the progression to world class badminton lately... with the exception of possibly susan hughes and robert blair.. so its time to stop begging for praise and instead make a dent on a higher level outside of scotland.

[Stonecold]

sorry fraser, thats what iv heard as well! seems u have sum explaining to do.

iv been watching with interest for some time now and now find time to comment...

i agree with Colin Hill that although a massive tournament, the European Junior is not the be all and end all to judge your career...many champions at that age progress no further, and many players knocked out early can go on to huge success. so juniors, dont b mislead into thinking u Have to win a medal to please people. put in the work, and win it for yourself. I know i wanted a medal badly, and was disappointed when i was knocked out, but now i know that thats nowhere near as tough as trying to compete at senior level.

altho juniors it may not be ur fault that u r the 1st major group to benefit from new extreme funding which wasnt available before, u have to understand that plenty of players before at ur age had success without this, with less time spent on them,and with less available practice with seniors. although im a senior, i still need games against those older and stronger than me, but im grateful for the practice with the Robertson's and Gilmour's of this world, and il ask them for a game. now and then it seems like juniors expect older players to walk on with them...and takie for granted getting far more time on court with seniors than people like me or people before me ever got. u have to understand that this wasnt as readily available.....but we still had success, and didnt shout to the rooftops about it. some people r taking offence because u know u r gettin so much more, but flaunt it big style. theres still a long way to go. i know that just as well as anyone becuase im feeling the struggle of being a new senior, but have bigger goals now than the european junior.

dont come across as hard done to by having to train hard...realise as dan told me that ur not sacrificing anything else....its ur badminton that your sacrificing by doing other things.

[jillie]

it appears to me that you do not seem to like or encourage the younger players in this set up? if so why is this? i am just trying to make a point that we should try to help the juniors progress into top players do you not agree?

[mcsmegor]

also before this gets out of hand... i am in no way making comments on the set up for the new lottery group... the idea of funding the best juniors in scotland is a great idea and i am sure that it will bring the players at ages 13 and 14 on immensly also the olders ones are sure to improve. this in turn will make scotland a more competive nation in the future which is what im sure we all want!
However i do feel that some of the players attitudes have to be questioned..

[jillie]

yes i totally agree there greg some of the juniors attitudes really do have to be improved and also the behaviour on the court but that is a matter for another thread

[Stonecold]

to ryan baxter....dont u think that a senior player or a player of gregs age-18/19, considering he was deemed to old for the lottery squad, but was still easily good enough, and is not part of the senior set up yet, has enough to worry about trying to succeed in his own career. he and i have only one chance to make it big, so why would we at this stage be so concerned with helping others, when helping ourself is needed too. getting 10 minutes out of 45 on a doubles court on a saturday morning while people younger get 45 out of 45 is quite frustrating....especially having important targets to meet to keep lottery funding next year, so if i cant get enough time on court playing top players with my partner, that is gonna suffer. i know to an extent juniors need to be bred, and need older players to do this, but not evryone needs to....players winding down can help, but at the moment i am struggling enough to make it, so i wana focus on what i have to do rather than having to sit off and watch people being pushed to climb the ladder faster than me. i still play juniors when im told, but it wil not become my sole priority. im sure greg feels the same.

[mcsmegor]

valid points james... it is important for the other players apart from those lottery funded to gain valuable court time during senior games sessions. If not there will not be a good enough depth in scotland to bring on these top juniors

[jillie]

yes definetely i know that the seniors need to concentrate on there own carrer. i didnt mean that everyone should just think about the juniors all the time and concentrate on them what i ment was they need experience to. i dont really know anythin about the seniors or the juniors training schedule. all i know is that scottish badminton in a whole has got to get better dont you agree?

[Allycraigtribute]

[GordonSim]

Nothing like a bit of destructive Scottish in-fighting boys and girls. Read the thread on junior-senior player development below and perhaps you will all understand what Dan Travers and others have been driving at.

It takes a good athlete 10,000 hrs or 10 to 12 years training to reach world class. Different people will make their impact at different ages. Junior results are little indicator of potential, in the grown up world there are lot's of people with potential in many fields who have never fulfilled their early promise...that's life.

It's the long hard graft that's what will make the difference, in 5-10 years time we will see who's badminton is doing the talking, some of you will be in for a surprise!

[jillie]

that is also a fair point but if it is scotlands badminton thats doing the talkin i think we will all be happy

[rebelwithoutacause]

As I have been out of the game for a number of years I cannot comment on these current issues I have o say though it appears there are bright youngsters out there and unless you are narrow minded you should be supporting them all the way If they are putting in 20 Hours on court time they must be appluaded. i dont know you at all greig but if you are so good then why are you not in such a squad or in the senior institute

[mcsmegor]

the reason for me not being in the senior institute is a lack of senior results at a significant level..
simple
As i was told in my situation with not having next years european jnr team to play in, junior results are not enough to gain entry to senior institute..
From the knowledge i have the senior institute is for medal potential players and as i have not proved myself as a senior medal potential that is the reason i am only part of the area institute..
This was as i believe also the reason for me and my doubles partner gordon thomson not being considered for the lottery squad, because of us being a year older.. the same with a few players from last years european jnr team
as i believe the reason there was an intake of young players last season was because it was believed that they were junior medal potential..
I also dont claim to be "so good"
My whole point on this thread was about the attitudes of some juniors and not the lottery set up which i believe is working..
especially with the younger members, such as linda sloan who is now competeting well in europe at U15

[jillie]

so in your opinion then who are the good juniors to watch?

[sift]

interested in trying to play two sports and aim for the top, not possible

missing an elite squad to play a hockey match on a Sunday is hardly dedication to badminton

[jillie]

oh missing an elite squad on a sunday to go to hockey that really wont do at all! what do the powers at be say about that one?

[Phil McBride]

Greg are you still aiming for the senior institute?

If so how can you prove yourself if the competitions you need to play in are outwith your grasp not being in the european junior team.

Good game against the police last Tuesday, well done!

[phillsy]

This has nothing to do with the person just the debate over two sports at once.

ryan, are you intentionally being ignorant? If you are playing two sports for Scotland, which is some achievement, do you really believe that it is only one training session that will be sacrificed?

In my opinion, in order to excell you must be dedicated to one sport and concentrate on it, especially at such an important stage in a young players development.

To take that childish tone simply outlines that you are just trying to stir things and are not making a valid contribution to the discussion.

[jillie]

no i am not taking anything away from what kazy baby has done i think it is an excellent achievement i simply am interested what all the coaches would say on this matter i am all for the juniors

[jillie1]

well as a neutral thats had the honour of seeing the scottish juniors when they came down to the northumberland junior i was very impressed by what i saw. they had a very young team out but a very good one at that and i think that they could do very well this year and next year! a strong team

[jillie1]

[jillie1]

i was just wondering what everyone else thought of the team?

[JohnEllis]

It is sad to see Scottish Juniors having a go at one another on this and other threads.
Yes the juniors at the Institute are good and improving fast.
Greg you are a good doubles player but you need to work hard to ensure you stay ahead of those on the programme.
We can all talk the talk on here but walking the walk only happens on court in match situations!! This is where you all can and must prove yourselves.
There is an item in BAOFE Badminton magazine about controlling the controllables and not focusing on the uncontrollables.
Who is in the Institute squads is not within your control.
How hard you train, prepare, warm up and play are within your control.
At the end of the day the better player will win head to head confrontations more often than lose.
Who you play with in doubles is usually within your control, if you constantly blame your partner then it is time for a change!!
Good luck to you all.
Improving Scots will only ensure we English improve too as we hate losing to you as much as you love beating us.

[BobBruce]

Sorry, this comment is a bit out of order but I've only just seen what is being said.

I couldn't believe it when I saw that Jamie was complaining about not having enough court time on a Saturday morning! Surely if court time was so precious to them they would take any games they could get, even if that meant playing a junior. However, I've seen our "top" players refuse a game against our top juniors and prefer to sit off reading the paper, and "resting"! The only reason for our juniors appearing to have more court time than the seniors is that we take every chance we are offered to be on court. When we go in for a 2 hour training/games session (notice training comes first) we spend at least 1hr 30mins on court, when our seniors go in for a 2 hr games/tranining (notice the order this time) the spend at least 1hr 30mins avoiding being on court!

This links in with the earlier comments about how much time is spent by both juniors and seniors a week training. When a junior says they spend 20hrs a week training, it will probably be around this number, how many seniors can say the same? I would say not many.

Any outsiders want to take a guess at which group of players, junior or senior, is putting in the most effort to take badminton to the top level? I think the answer is fairly obvious.

[phillsy]

Ryan, you seem to have missed the point again.

"i am all for the juniors"

This is not juniors versus the world! We should all be supporting the juniors as they are the future of the sport, but i was not talking about this.

I was praising in sporting terms but not badminton terms as it can not be a healthy situation to be funding any player who does not seem to be dedicated totally to the sport. Eventually one sport must take preference if you wish to excell at the highest level - hence elite squad. This is not aimed at the person that people have been talking about as i don't know much about the situation and only know what i have read on this website. It is a general comment on the two sports debate as i have previously stated.

[phillsy]

Sorry, Not My Real Name - good original name sir! I presume that you may be a junior!

For those trying to reach the top level i can understand why they become frustrated as i have seen them sitting at the side - and all they do is moan that they are not on court!! It is no substitute for them to go through to the other hall and play the juniors - although time should be set aside for this. I have no problem filling this role and i am more than happy to play the juniors on saturday mornings, as i have never turned down your coaches requests. I go along to these sessions too and rarely get to play the top seniors - but i understand that there is a reason for this.

Your comments could be regarded as quite insulting to those busting a gut to get where they want to go, for instance training at 6.30am. So to make the comment about "games/training" is unfair. After all, the saturday mornings are games sessions!

could you also explain your "top" players comment please? What do you mean by this?

[rebelwithoutacause]

As I have been reading through these threads I wonder who these top juniors are and also why cant everyone get along!!Can someone broadcast who the juniors to watch out for are?

[BobBruce]

Thanks Colin, I'm going to take that as a bit of support for my (slightly controversial) comment.

I never meant it to be a personal insult to the players it's aimed at, more of a defence to the juniors who had been attacked earlier in the thread.

I don't think the seniors realise just how much work the Junior Lottery Group is putting, and how hard we work at every session-hence the "training/games".

Perhaps in the same way, our perception of how much work the seniors are putting in may be slightly off, however it is my view that to (some) seniors it is games first, training next. This may be insulting to some players, probably the ones the comment has been aimed at; is this beacause they know it's true?

I never meant to insult or offend anyone, I thought we needed to defend ourselves-and attack is the best form of defence. I hope now that this has been highlighted they will try to change this view and we can all have a better, more enjoyable games session. Rather than sitting in our respective halls bitching about everyone who is meant to be on our team!

I'm sure anyone outside of Scotland is having a good laugh when reading this about how much we are fighting with ourselves rather than fighting together!!

The "top" players bit is simply that although they are thought of as our top players, there are still the likes of Craig Robertson, Dave Gilmour, Russell Hogg, etc that, although retired or just not in the SIS, they could still beat or at least give a hard fight against the current crop of SIS players.

[jillie]

yes i am sure that everyone outside of scotland are sitting at there computers having a right laugh at scottish badminton just now. at the end of the day we are all scottish and we should be helping each other juniors and seniors to improve but will this ever happen? i see obvious divides between certain groups of juniors at tournaments.why is this?? even some of the juniors dont get on so what chance do we have of juniors and seniors mixing together?

[JohnEllis]

Good luck to all the juniors in your Nationals March 6th/7th. I will await the results with interest.

[jillie1]

yes john i think it will be a very interesting champs this year with maybe a few upsets a long the way! was just wondering everyones predictions for the weekend?

[Stonecold]

Can Sorry, Not my Real Name provide a real name please. Your points would be taken more seriously by me and other seniors if you had the decency to announce yourself.

As Colin Hill said, Saturday mornings are a specific games session only-which before the Lottery squads started were known as Institute Games Sessions- for seniors. Over the last few months, the juniors have also joined the session, interacting with the seniors and playing each other. Now let me get this straight- after 5 days of training, the saturday games session is a chance for me to get a decent practice with my partner Stewart Kerr. It is even more necessary since we are a relatively new partnership and need to work on things we have trained for. Therefore it can be frustrating when you go along on that day and are often split up, playing with another senior you never play with against two juniors- an established partnership. This is not the same, and benefits only the juniors on the other side. I often state to the coaches i will play a junior when im off court, but to an extent, and with my normal partner. For you to claim the juniors have more ambition by saying we spend 1 hour 30 minutes off court as opposed to your on court time is totally wrong....if i spend that much time off court its because the coaches making the games are filling free courts with juniors, not myself choosing to rest. I would also make it be known that id have been off this time and ask to be put on. Unless you know players like me and other seniors inside out, then who are you to comment on what commitment senior players have, and state that you want to play much more.

I am not doubting junior lottery squad players dont work, but dont look for praise around every corner. As i have said before...members of the last 3 european junior squads gained more success in the UK and Europe than the current squad have, and i predict will, and were much stronger players under 19- without as much backing, funding, coaching and Praise. I hope your work pays off and you can prove me wrong and Scottish badminton improves...but dont make out that only this squad works.

As Colin said, even sessions at 6.30am have been needed to try and progress with my partner, and it definitely still is needed- so i will be doing it. If i didnt want to progrees, i wouldnt bother.

Name yourself!

[cnic]

Jamie, you did say after 5 days of training, must have missed you each day.

In fact only actually see you at the games session.

[phillsy]

if you are going to make a comment about someone then at least have the decency to put down your real name.

[bunny]

I spectate the tournaments and also have noticed divides among both juniors and seniors. Could this be due to lack of integration of East and West squads?

The bickering between seniors and juniors is very poor! You ask everyone to put a name to their comments but when kazy baby did she was personally attacked with comments.Most of these comments coming from a coach of junior players, is that how coaching staff are taught to encourage the juniors nowadays?

You'll find that the junior players are emotionally fragile when it comes to being insulted but then they are easily amused by silly badminton forums.Thats the way youth is!And it wasn't that long ago your age group entertained themselves by shouting rediculus remarks on court ( "JOBBY" bring back any memories?!)
The supposed "seniors" should be setting an example by taking a more mature approach.Not taking petty stabs at any competition you are encountering from the juniors. Surely if you're unhappy with training sessions you should approach your coaches.

[jillie]

in reply to steve i have noticed an ever more increasin divide in the squad! why is this!? maybe the juniors can come on and tell us for themselves? it seems although some people are only interested in a certain group! why?

[Phil McBride]

There is a divide in the squad but do you have the evidence to back it up?

Why would the juniors put their place in the squad in trouble by coming onto a forum which by all accounts they only discovered after the recent Home Countries matches (is that another dig at the result? Surely not)

Some people are only interested in a certain group! Why would that be? Pray tell!

It seems that Steve has noticed the only fundamental thing here - the juniors are still in all intents and purposes CHILDREN.

And if anyone is wondering the game of "jobby" is a classic still played by many a fool.

[cnic]

Re this let's all be together theme and everyone is equal, why is it that only certain groups have to sit the bleep test and other players float in and out when they like to play games sessions, representative matches etc.

Surely if there is a criteria of fitness it should apply across the board to all players selected not just those in certain squads.

There are a few seniors and juniors who seem able to select when they train missing the difficult or unpopular sessions, do not sit the bleep test (other players get hell if they do badly) and are still selected for teams.

If there has to be a bleep test rule it should be applied to all available for selection.

[Stonecold]

C Nic, once again why cant you use your real name, is that too much ask........what are you implying by your comments. this time of year you wont see me as often there as im at uni in stirling and my programme mainly gets carried out up there, and in at glasgow when i can, but i dont actually need to explain myself to you. if you knew anything about my life you wouldnt make those remarks.

to steve, you are right about your comments about shouting before...i am not denying that, but i wasnt questioning youngsters behaviour so bringing that up was irrelevant. our junior team had complaints...suspensions...the lot, and i know that is not right, but we still competed well in many EBU and British events.

i enjoy the young competition........but what i dont enjoy is sitting watchin continuous matches from off the court, when i could be on. my point was that when i was their age, we rarely got a chance to play a senior, then at under 19 it was every few weeks at a specific games session, and we had it in us to go and ask for a game, now the feeling amongst the older players is that its just expected and taken for granted. ive never said i mind playing juniors, its good for the development...but not when it is digging into my time for development also, when im looking to improve with my own partner. it isnt just juniors who have important targets you know, like targets to reach lottery funding, institute targets etc. the coaches know this off players, not just me, but when some coaches are not at the sessions, it turns into a shambles.

to C Nic, since you have questioned me in your earlier thread, il state that i have passed the required mark, sitting it back in october when i had to, and alos attended every fitness test since. put your neck on the line and name people, have some balls.

[Stonecold]

good luck to all the juniors tho, this is a chance people in the past would have dreamed about....probably why some older people get annoyed, because they just missed the boat. im just as passionate about scotland succeeding as the next person, that should be obvious when i play.....so potentially we should have a strong senior squad with plenty of depth one day if this works out.

some comments by outsiders nothing to do with this are poitnless though.

[sift]

You are getting paranoid Jamie.

I would guess that c nic is getting at the seniors and juniors this year who have been selected for Scotland and who do not attend running sessions or regular fitness tests.

Sounds like there will be a great atmosphere tomorrow if the games session is on.

[Stonecold]

thanks for the concern lonely loser. im alright actually, no paranoia, just replying to someone, anonymous to me, who made a remark about myself. i feel that has no place unless they are someone known to me. the atmosphere tomorrow will be fine, looking forward to it. everyone after all is striving for the same thing so i think that will show on the court, regardless of the comments.