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View Full Version : What now for England?


IanClark
1st June 2004, 11:53
I read, with interest, the two articles in the Badminton magazine written by Stephen Baddeley and John Havers. I found John's forthright views very much to the point.

One only has to look the performances of the England team over the past 12 months. In summary, we missed a medal at the European team championships, missed qualifying for the Uber Cup, and only just scraped into the Thomas Cup but where we failed to win a match at the finals losing all of our singles matches.

Not to be too downhearted, we have seen a number of individual successes, notably Nathan and Gail's Eurpean gold and Nathan and Anthony's silver medal. But there appear to be some alarming signs.

The success of our singles players has received much publicity. I personally would not blame the individual coaches because if you haven't got talented players it's very difficult to coach them to world level.

My other big worry, despite our success, is the lack of depth in the doubles events. In the men, clearly Nathan and Anthony are world class, and Rob has done well in the mixed events. We hope Simon can get back to full fitness as we so desperately need him. The two following are Kristain Roebuck and David Lindley who both went to the Thomas Cup. But who are the next up and coming stars. I personally don't see any others.

In the ladies, Gail and Donna (when she's fit) could regain a world position.Ella and Jo have done reasonably well but can they reach a high world position. Again we don't have the depth in other players coming through at that level.

Finally, as far as mixed goes, we have some reasonably talented men which gives us a reasonable depth. I do not see the same depth in the ladies currently playing mixed.

It really is frightening so see such little depth - God forbid we get any injuries. So what now? John Havers refers to a fundamental review of the whole system. I would have to agree because we need to find out why we cannot produce many international class players, never mind world class players. Is it the lack of badminton in schools? Is the problem after they leave school? Do we have sufficient high level cells around the country with the right standard of coaching? Have we got the right level of coaching at world level? It is encouraging to see the U17's and U15's doing so well - we need to ensure that we do not throw away this talent

The number of questions is endless but we need to stop this serious downward spiral. We need to look at what other successful countries are doing.

Finally, as regards coaches, I hear that Rexy Manaky's contract runs out next year. I do hope the BA of E have the sense to talk to Rexy as soon as possible about extending his contract - that's assumming he wants to stay, of course. I saw him play at the recent exhibition at Leicester - he was fantastic. I gather he's a great coach too and that the players really respect him.

John (Havers), thank you for your openess and honesty. I look forward to hearing about the BA of E's plan for the way forward.

Views anyone?

Mel Wyatt
1st June 2004, 13:34
Hi DC.
I don't think there is any easy answer to this one. If you look at the All-England results, we did have some good results in the men's singles, although we seem to be at the early stages yet - occasional good results, but no consistency.
Like you, the worrying thing for me is that the strength in depth is just not there. The players who stand out, stand out because they are on their own!
If you go back to the days when England was strong, the whole game was strong. We had strength not only within the England side, but with players coming through the county system.
Whatever we change now, will not have an effect for a few years.

Eileendover
1st June 2004, 21:59
Hold on to all the players that you have in the potential system and work on them. Make them feel wanted, make Milton Keynes more inviting. Then perhaps the younger players would want to train more regularly there. Its no good inviting one at a time, look how many have tried this and decided it wasn't for them! You have to invite a group (all around the same age) and keep them coming at regular intervals (say, one day a week). They will then enjoy the whole experience and have friends to socialize with. At the age of 18- 20 the last thing you want is to be training with people you don't really know that well. Keep them as a group - THIS WILL WORK! Try it baofe

SylviaPenn
2nd June 2004, 00:38
Where have all the girls gone?! I know of at least half a dozen very keen and talented girls who were discarded and ignored by the BAofE. They had good results and played all the tournaments but were in the same age group as players such as Caroline Westley, Sarah Bok, Jenny Day, Reshmi Ouseph, Rachel Howard but were never given the same opportunities. Not everyone develops their game at the same age and BAofE coaches should encourage them. Just a few words would mean such a lot. I believe this is where we are losing our strength in depth.
The junior system seems to be improving with more coaching in junior schools.

I agree with Eileen that the whole atmosphere must be inviting for young players. They want to be with their friends as well as play badminton.

Eileendover
2nd June 2004, 11:13
All the girls you mentioned are still very involved with the baofe. I agree with you. We should keep the depth this seems to have happened for many years, its not a new thing. When players get involved with University that seems to be another common time that the baofe start to forget them and not give them as many opportunities as the players who decide to go "full time". Understandable to a certain point but many top sports people leave University with a degree and still manage to compete with World Class sportsmen and women. Keep them interested and noticed, bring them on a group. Then surely this group will go on to do big things in team competitions. It does not work to have the odd one or two that get special attention, they are unhappy and so do not perform on court. Surely the baofe have noticed how many players have gone on to the age of about 20/21 then dropped out.(what a waste of time, effort and not to mention funding)

Eileendover
2nd June 2004, 11:57
Hello Syvia. Was your daughter Natalie Penn? What is she doing now?

eddykid
2nd June 2004, 14:13
Ladies,
Everything is now under control.

We have a Dane in charge so the system must improve............honest.

Martin Dew-Hattens
2nd June 2004, 14:30
I would say Eileen has the right idea.

The "keep them together" and social approach goes a long way to copy the Danish system. Now whilst the Danes may not be Thomas/Uber Cup champions then at a wild guess I would say they do ok!

Eileendover
2nd June 2004, 18:40
Hi Martin, how come we know this would work better but the baofe doesn't. I can think of loads of examples when the 'invite one player along ' approach didn't work. I won't name people though. The baofe know who I'm talking about. The group that have just come out of Under 19 age, would be a good place to start. Invite them along, all together. If they can't make a whole day then make it a Sat or Sun. The coaches will have to swap a weekday for a weekend. Come on we all have to do it!! The social approach is the way to go.
Any thoughts on that?

SylviaPenn
3rd June 2004, 00:49
Hi Eileen - yes I realise all the girls I mentioned are still involved - it was such a strong age group. I also know of other girls who have been treated very badly in the age groups either side of these. Only hope things improve now - wouldnt like others to suffer as we have. No one would believe some of the things that have happened.
Nikki and Andy both play for their Universities and Counties. Most of the young England players seem to be at universities now and coping with the studying and training.

Mel Wyatt
3rd June 2004, 13:21
I guess that there are several reasons for not adopting the 'social' approach; not all of them the baofe's fault!
The lottery funding depends to some extent on the performances at the Thomas/Uber Cup, All-England, Grand Prix events etc.
You can understand that the baofe are under pressure to devote the bulk of their funding to the current top players. What funding is left would be distributed amongst the other age groups. The baofe the have hard decisions to make about who to include and who to drop. I suspect the baofe know they have got it wrong at times!
But for the future of English badminton we have to nurture the next generation; which obviously is only partially sucessful at the moment.
I can't help but feel that (as suggested by Martin in a previous thread) de-centralisation would help the funds go further. It would help to keep more youngsters in the fold to mature at their own pace and encourage the social approach we all seem to agree on.

Eileendover
4th June 2004, 14:28
Surely it must get to the stage, with the current elite squad, thats its not worth investing too much more money in them because they are not going to improve. The next run of the ladder should have the money pumped in.

eddykid
4th June 2004, 14:53
Eileen,
I pressume that you have a son or daughter who plays the game?
Am I right...

badderboy
4th June 2004, 18:17
Money should go to the juniors,I can't see our current top players doing anything special internationally so the juniors should be trained up and funded.

England doesn't have depth and so if someone is injured there is no-one to come in.In China if a player is injured at junior level then another player is taken in his place.A vicous system but effective.

England players also don't train half as much as the far eastern players.Malaysians do 20 mile runs each day or so I've heard.The Chinese train 8 hours a day 6 days a week.I know that it would be hard to put in that much training a week but how come none of our players can do that or get near to that much training.

Are there any badminton schools in England or would it cost too much to build one and fund it?

eddykid
4th June 2004, 18:26
Nick,
Apart from Nathan there is no one who puts in what the other leading countries put in.
Our players get the results they deserve.
The main problem is that the B Aof E have not got the control of the players and the players seem to do what they want.
I am sure that it would be a start if Butler got all the players there 6 days a week but I am sure he doesn't.
They just don't want it enough and it is part of your English culture.

flamingjam
4th June 2004, 19:09
It dosen't matter what sport you do in this country be it badminton or whatever we cant give that amount of time to the game as juniors its not possible and for any junior not in the england setup often badminton comes as a second piroity in certain years and times. In this country and the current social beliefs and systems we have it cant happen. The games has to be fun and building team groups that are best mates off as well as on court can help you work harder to help ones you know.

Vorpulus
5th June 2004, 10:55
Singles Rickerby?

TheresaGreen
5th June 2004, 22:15
I completely agree with you about the youngsters being trained for the England Set up as a group. It will be interesting to see what happens after the funding reviews next week. Perhaps some of the group that went to the six nations (and did so well) will get taken off. This should not happen because again it would be taking away our depth. Why do we keep doing this? hasnt anyone learnt from previous mistakes! They should be making arrangements now for the whole group to attend weekley get togethers at M.K.