cheating is a crime!!

[arnoldfred]

Cheaters should be monitored and there should be a yellow card for faking injuries and sudden asthma attacks when things arnt in your favour such as the system for people who dive in football. Not only does it let yourself down but your county an England so all you cheats out there watch ya backs and all you officials watch admin - name removed - 19:42 8 April 2002
!!

[Steved]

What brought this on Arnold?

[Alex]

I totally agree with what you mean! I spent 4 days in Nottingham at the ICT and although I won't mention any names there was one particular girl who definately fakes asthma attacks, and injuries to put her opponent into a fake sense of security! I have seen this work twice with this particular girl and it nearly worked once when her team were playing Merseyside. Fortunately, her opponent was very strong willed and held on for an excellent win!

I would also like to point out that this girl is a regular in the England squad. It is disgraceful for a player to be able to behave like that and get away with it.

It seems you have to live in the south to get a regular place in the england squad!

I see 2 players from Merseyside better than quite a few England regulars but dont get the chance - this shouldnt be the case.

On a final note, i think that Mr. Fred has an excellent point and the same sanctions as those occuring in football should be available for the referees.

Alex

[arnoldfred]

since my daughter was cheated out of a game in the final of the 1965 danish championships!!

[rachyuk]

Is there a card system in place for Badminton officials to use?

I am sure I've heard of players being shown yellow cards for offences on court.

[Alex]

Now Arnold maybe you are taking things too seriously, either that or being sarcastic!

However, i thought you had a valid point!

I say Lyndsey Aston and Helen Davies for England!! There is a couple of girls who take it all seriously and are very friendly and are both great sports(wo)men! But are still competative! Why cant more people be like them!!!

Alex

[Alex]

There is a card scheme in use but is very rarely used!

Surrey (juniors) at present have a yellow card against them i believe although i can not say i am 100% sure.

Funnily enough - their top girl is most probably the subject of this thread!!

[arnoldfred]

being from the south i must say that the england team is dominated by people from the south i to agree that shouldnt be the case when the talent in the north is there i really dont see the problem and yes if there is a yellow card system i cant see why certain players have not received them

[PansyPants]

You have a good point and i am not afraid to use names - admin - name removed - 19:37 8 April 2002

I believe in free speech and i believe that she has a problem. She has to realise that she cant win everytime!!

Jase

[arnoldfred]

The key is its not worth cheating so just dont do it

[Site Support]

Just a quick note to ask everyone not to put personal attacks on the forum. Fair enough if you want to discuss the situation, but it really is not fair, especially when the person is not on the website to defend themselves.

We want to see open discussions, and the topic of cheating is a brilliant one and one that needs talking about, but if you have any complaints about the conduct of fellow badminton players, please complain to club and league organisers so it can sorted out in a proper manner.

Please don't use this forum as a platform for abusing people.

[Alex]

I agree with that comment and the people here really already know who we are talking about. Its a well known fact! Thats why Surrey have a yellow card i believe!!

But cheating turns people against you and wins you no friends.

Apart from that, it isnt what the game is about!

[PansyPants]

Yes but to be fair i should be able to warn other players who may have to play this cheating cow (mentioning no names - JB) what she is like, i mean she seriously puts people off even if it is just makin them piss themselves laughing because she is such a crappy actress - it all adds to the distraction of the other players!!

Something needs to be done, complains!!

What is this certain individual doing in the england squad anyway!! Rediculous!

We should be able to name and shame!!

By all means invite her here to defend herself, i dont believe that there is much she can say - she can hardly deny it, its blatant!

[Smasha]

Definately.

It is just so sad that people have to cheat to win. Cheats never prosper, and they will only just humiliate themdelves on court. Everyone will hate them especially their opposition, and it is just so stupid. What is the point? it just shows that they can only get a point by cheating, so come on, pull yer socks up! (but not on court time wasters)

[Alex]

and dont tie your shoe laces cooper!!

haha

theres a point, always make sure your shoe laces wont come untied on court!!

[Eglon]

Living in Scotland and never having seen this particular girl play I cant comment on whether her "acting" is good or not. But I have to say that some of the comments in this forum are a bit close to the bone whether its tru or not.

Feigning injury or asthma attacks so as to gain an advantage in a game is a bit below the belt, but has anyone actually spoken to the guilty parties personally.(I'm sure that there is probably more than just one person who uses similar tactics.)

Sometimes a discreet word to say you know whats happening can either stop the problem or at least make the individual think twice.

Anyway if someone is "feigning injury", why allow that to influence your game. Just keep playing the same way and wipe them of the court. It'll soom become apparent if they are faking, as they will have to start playing properly and all will be apparent. If they are not faking then you will have a quick and easy victory.

Finally I have to agree that individuals who are known to employ such tactics should not be playing in the national squad. But rather than bleating about individuals on this forum why not make sure that the ones doing the selecting know about this.

[Alex]

When someone is cheating it does influence your game. It puts you off and winds you up. Dodgy line calls that you can do nothing about is another problem.

If you have a cheat on your team then it can turn people against your whole team.

There should be stricter rules against it and stricter penalties to make sure that the people who regularly do it and get away with it will think twice before the next time they do it!

[Tracy]

Jason, if something needs to be done & 'everyone' knows how bad this has become, why has it been able to go on for so long?
I find it hard to believe that those in authority would allow this to carry on.
Have you made representations yourself? If you feel so strongly, you should.

[Eglon]

I totally agree that those who cheat should face the consequences and that there should be stiffer penalties for those that do. Obviously the teams for which these players play for aren't bothered with their reputation just the win or else the player wouldn't be picked.

There is another forum which has been discussing foul serves. Now this I feel is a problem and does create a distinct advantage for the offending player, but feigning injury is just mind games. Getting frustrated about it only allows the player to accomplish what they have set out to do, PUT YOU OFF YOUR GAME.

As I mentioned earlier, play your usual game, humiliate them on the court and they'll soon change their tactics. Whether you feel sorry for them because they are "injured" or get frustrated because you know their cheating, YOU LOSE.

A few matches lost to nil will soon have them rethinking their dubious antics. Vent your frustration after the match face to face (politely but firmly) by speaking directly to the person or to the coach.

Isn't it better to rectify a problem than moan and do nothing. You just get more frustrated.
And if the person cheating is in YOUR team and you do nothing about it then your as guilty as the person feigning whatever. Do something about it!

[pkho]

Hello,
Looking in from the outside (I'm in Canada :D ) but has the coach of the "un-named" player spoken to her about good sports(wo)manship? Seems to me that by not teaching her ethics and good sports(wo)manship, the coach and staff are as much to blame as the player.

Obviously, the association (BAoE) also has to enforce its rules. One thing to note too, it seems to be more and more common in sports nowadays (not just football/soccer). Over here in Canada, ice hockey seems to suffer the same problem with players (pros and otherwise) diving/"cheating" in order to get an advantage over their opponents.

[rachyuk]

Yes Peter, Good point.
I also think it is fair to say that people are pushing the boundaries of their sports more and more these days. (How old do I sound!) but it is true.

Until the various sporting authorities set up measures to watch, counteract or 'deal' with any destructive elements that should occur repeatedly, then the 'exploiting of rules' will continue to evolve.

I notice in some football (soccer) games -As you have used this as an example- that players who are self diagnosed as injured must take themselves off the pitch to receive treatement and have to be allowed back on by the ref himself. This is a fairly recent and good responce from the authorities. It endorses fair play in football for that particular aspect of the game.

What aspects of the existing rules and regs for badminton need updating? (open question)

[Alex]

I dont think that the rules need changing very much. They just need to have certain things incorporated and to be made on the whole a bit stricter!

I dont think this persons "cheating" is as bad as is being made out but could certainly be questioned.

I think that you need to stop mentioning peoples names Jason as you could be bringing the good name of Merseyside into disrepute and it seems (from your posting on the Merseyside forum) that you support them on the whole.

I think we should now make this particular thread into a thread about "cheating" in general and not about "people".

Alex

[caztaylor]

I have just seen this thread and read through it all. I have no idea who the player is that some of you want to name but would agree with others that you should not name any players, particularly juniors. You obviously feel very strongly about this but have you actually spoken to the player's coach or team manager? If you do not want to talk to them personally why not write to them? Complaining about a player on a web site is not going to change them, go direct to the player or for a junior talk to the coach.

The subject generally is a good one but I would agree this is not the place for personal attacks.

[jtboy]

I agree that if a player is cheating, that they should get reported to the officials at the tournament. Has anything been done at the time of the incident? Such as reporting the faking of injury?

I hope that the anonymous player realises that they have a problem and that it is totally unacceptable.

I have been to many junior tournaments as a player and spectator and have been appalled at the faking (especially in the U13 age group and in the south of the country)
SOMETHING MUST BE DONE!!

I also agree that personal attacks are unacceptable and that site support should eject anyone who uses foul language or uses personal attacks from this forum!!!!

[georgie]

I have been playing in the U13 age group this season, in the south, and the thing I have noticed most is the bad line calling! I have not noticed the faking of injuries much.

[Stevenio]

I played on the ESBA circuit for 7 years in the late 80's/early 90's. I often reached the final rounds of the regional tournaments. In my experience the junior competitive badminton circuit fails to protect some of the players between the very important age of 12-16.

Cheating and intimidation needs to be stamped out at Junior level. I am surprised it is still going on.

I recall that there were particular players who used to question good line calls constantly in order to intimidate their opponent. There was also one high ranking player who used to have some kind of illness/stomach complaint before every match. I witnessed near fights on the courts because it's impractical to put in umpires.

I also recall there was also a certain amount of bullying of some talented players that put players off the sport. This occured particularly on away trips when parental support is at a minimum. If any trip organisers are reading, I must plead with you to keep an eye on your group. You need to be aware of what's going on because it is how you lose talented players.

Without mentioning names, 2 of the aforementioned bullies/cheaters went on to become Professional players. Make of that what you will.

Finally, if someone is faking an athsma attack to win a game I do not think it is solely the fault of the individual. Perhaps this girl is under too much pressure to win matches. If the parents aren't keeping a watchful eye on this then the National and County organisers need to step in and speak to the parents. The circuit needs to be a safe place for Juniors to develop themselves peronally. Everyone including the player loses out so don't make her a scape goat.

[Cheung]

aside from the cheating business....

Asthma is a serious condition which is life threatening. Any tournament organiser/umpire should take it as such and stop play as the condition may develop into a life threatening attack. It would not be wise to let a person continue playing a tournament when they have already claimed to have such symptoms during the game. Would people be allowed to continue to play if they suffered an epileptic attack or a heart attack? Of course not.

Injury feigning..would it be an idea to have a first aid service available at tournaments? If not, then can the sports centre administrative staff have a look at the injury. Maybe tournament organisers/umpires should query the priorities: person health should be the first priority. If a person has lesser health problems(such as stomach upset) that has interuptted play two times, I am of the opinion the physical health of the player should be regarded as being serious enough for them not to function properly and such a walkover be awarded.

If umpires are not available, then it should be a responsibility of the tournament organiser to award w/over. Of course, he/she would need to be informed beforehand of the potential unhealthy state of the competitor.

A bit strict perhaps but asthma attacks shouldn't be taken lightly. Such a rule would help reduce injury feigning. I haven't read the IBF rules on the subject so am not aware what their opinion is.

[rachyuk]

Very good point Cheung Yu.

I think if an illness/injury presents itself more than once and disrupts the game, then measures should be taken to halt play. I am very surprised to hear that juniors are allowed to 'play through' an injury or illness, at all.

[Geof]

I think it should always be left to the tournament organisors to monitor both behaviour and cheating. I remember playing in an open tournament years ago,where there were a number of our then top juniors in the country playing. Their behahavior was so appalling with rackets being thrown, swearing etc.The referee threw six of them out of the tournament.I thought this was great a. Because it set an example and b. because it meant I went through to a semi final. Cheating and bad behaviour should be dealt with.

[jtboy]

The key to keeping juniors out of trouble on court is for the coach to teach the players that cheats never prosper.
My first coach at my club was strict but very encouraging. He taught the players about the rules of badminton and nearly every player played fairly and with respect for the opposition.
Unfortunately when this coach stopped coaching my group, havoc broke out. Players started cheating, swearing, ect.
Coaches should crack down on cheats. Because they have no plaace in english badminton.

[angeloftheocean]

I agree with everything that has been said about cheating!it doesn't get you anywhere! i also hate it when the opponents supporters cheer your mistakes; sometimes they cheer the shot that made you make a mistake and thats ok but when they obviously cheer your mistake its really off putting! does anyone else have this problem?

[Alex]

no, me personally... never make mistakes!!!

hehe

probably make more mistakes than good shots!

get more applause if they applaud the bad ones!

[ivorhardon]

rr tell me bout it cheating really gets me all hard i cant stand cheats why o why dont they realise what they do to the world 2 day!!!

[mccrackin]

Yea, if i had my way with cheats...

they would never walk again, (for obvious reasons) only cos they couldnt...

[jtboy]

Everybody, just to let you all know that the junior officials are not best pleased with this thread, eg ESBA.

Cheating is still a problem, especially in the younger age groups, however the amount of fair play is on the increase. I was playing in a tournament a few days ago and i slipped over on court. The opponent kindly offered to help me up and to see if I was ok.
Fair play should be encouraged and applauded. Cheaters should be punished.

[Alex]

The whole point of the thread in the first place was to discuss that, cheaters being punished and fair play being encouraged.

I can see why the ESBA officials may not be pleased as the thread did get personal.

However, the main gist of the thread is ok.

[Hana]

cheating iz well out and i dont c how people can be pleased with winning a game that they aint actually won!
people dont hav 2 live in da south 2 av a regular place in da england squad- most of them live in yorkshire!!!!!!!!!!

[jenwoody]

Alex,
It seems to me as if you have split personalities!! you have your own view points but then change them futher on into the discussion, it was you in the first place putting this player down, personaly i think the attack was unfair but i totally i agree because ive seen this player in action and she is not a very nice girl!!(on court) probably very nice off.

[Michael Banks]

I like this thread. It is a bit like Big Brother! Personally, I think she should be evicted.

[trolleybus]

Well, well, cheating rears it's ugly head again!! In the 80's it was the same, funny how the same area of the country (IT IS ALLEGED) always seems to get involved. I quite agree with the people who abhor it, and want it stopped, but humanity being what it is, I doubt that it will be ever entirely eliminated!

[Alex]

HI, Its Alex Hyde here, as appose to Jekyl! hehe!

I dont like the gal but stil think its a bit dodgy all the abuse, maybe i have listened to others and changed my mind, it is possible!!!

[Frodo]

Having just seen this thread and being familiar with most of the Surrey Junior squad, I am pretty certain that none of them would engage in cheating.

From my own observations and experience when calls have gone against me, that I am pretty sure shouldnt have and also having seen some not so good calls being made by 'professional' line judges, I think it is important to appreciate that the mind can play tricks when under stress.

Our brains are a complicated thing, and it does not always interpret the situation accurately especially where split second decisions are required.

If line judges can make bad calls, that are obvious to all, how much more likely that relatively inexperienced juniors will when under even more pressure.

I am sure that those selected for the England squad have some degree of talent - they may not be the best choice, but no matter who gets selected, there is always going to be some controversy.

I havent seen anyone complain yet about shots that appear out being called in when the decision favours them !

[Dippin]

Cau no 1 is going 2 say its in ,when its out because some counties want 2 cheat 2 win medals and stuff. which i dont like!!!!

P.S. Hate BAofE 4 closing down MSBA caus i dont wana play 4 Lancs!!!

[Alex]

Daniel, you are obviously new to the site, however, it was decided a while ago that short hand would not be used as it is decidedly more difficult to read your comments (txt lnguage wil not b used) :-)

Happy badminton

[SurreyPlayer]

[Frodo]

my that is short Claire !

only joking .. we all make mistakes. Better to make them of court, then on court ;-)

[claireh]

I have just read through this 'thread' having been told about it by a Surrey player. I would just like to encourage those who have talked about the particular Surrey girl to write to the Surrey Badminton Association and complain. I can confirm that I played the girl in the Surrey restricted tournament and was appalled at her behaviour on court. I am an 'older' (but not that old!) player and was less effected by her behaviour than I'm sure her peers are, but the constant poor sportmanship left me fuming as I came off court (I won the singles match you may all be pleased to hear!). She left the court, shouting and threw her racquet across the court at a wall. Anyway, I did tell her exactly what I thought about her behaviour on court, after she had said to me "great game" and she told me that she just gets carried away while on court (I'll say!). Anyway, it obviously hasn't had any effect as you're all still talking about it. I do hope that someone will be able to have some effect on her as it was a game I hated playing (despite winning) and that is not what badminton should be about.

[LauraMarlow]

Surrey Player - who are you, obviously female but which club do you play for? Would you say that the subject of this thread has improved (behaviour) over the last year or so?

[Alex]

Al's BACK!!!

Long time no see!

Hmm, i see since ive been gone ppl have agreed with me?